tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post7667351070827659327..comments2024-03-29T05:52:53.051+11:00Comments on The Adventurers Guild: Return of the Phantom - Won and Final SummaryThe Tricksterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-87642070991443956652022-06-18T14:01:10.940+10:002022-06-18T14:01:10.940+10:00your 3d maze in castle is fun, mostly because of t...your 3d maze in castle is fun, mostly because of the speed you can try a new path, and the small size of them. The last one, with the space walls was particulary misleading with so many ups and downs, but still fun.<br /><br />I've been to 2 real life size hedge mazes recently, spent 3 hours in one being completely lost, and solved the other one in 15 minutes. Can tell you that the experience was great, because contrary to these games where each screen is just a copy and paste, the mazes had very small features, or even my own tracks in the dirt as cues of what was going on.Alex Romanovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11107718628269051858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-91620611537108694372022-06-16T14:34:54.914+10:002022-06-16T14:34:54.914+10:00A very impassioned defense of mazes. I think its v...A very impassioned defense of mazes. I think its very appropriate that there's a reference to a mythological tragedy and the excesses of French royalty, two things that also provoke a love or hate response. Don't really have anything else to say there that I haven't already said, but I can't say I remember that maze, not a bad thing, since lasting impressions tend to be bad in the maze department. I do remember the mazes in IQ Adventure and Time Warp, which of course you didn't have a hand in and might not have even been aware of before I mentioned it.MorpheusKitamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16591271981112642781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-8777130863314268022022-06-16T14:10:12.991+10:002022-06-16T14:10:12.991+10:00That's an interesting way of looking at it, an...That's an interesting way of looking at it, and something I didn't consider. (though one might also say the same of the Are You Afraid of the Dark game that'll be released next year) Regardless, I suspect that depends on how things go whenever we reach the year ahead post for 1994.MorpheusKitamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16591271981112642781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-77851326570951104722022-06-16T13:55:17.668+10:002022-06-16T13:55:17.668+10:00I sincerely hope that neither of us have to deal w...I sincerely hope that neither of us have to deal with another maze anytime soon!MorpheusKitamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16591271981112642781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-25593410342595071892022-06-15T13:55:53.152+10:002022-06-15T13:55:53.152+10:00I hope you do play Dragonsphere. As bad as this ga...I hope you do play Dragonsphere. As bad as this game is, that one is great. I'd be interested in reading your reaction to that. Dugan Nashnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-10674760788743753482022-06-14T23:37:54.060+10:002022-06-14T23:37:54.060+10:00Congratulations on finishing it! And I feel your p...Congratulations on finishing it! And I feel your pain about mazes, having endured the Abbey of Crime's frustrating one recently.<br /><br />Also, thank you, Adventurers, for the Monk Award! :)Marianohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06995028810014388503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-53684370801554588152022-06-14T17:09:27.331+10:002022-06-14T17:09:27.331+10:00Thank you for Castle of Dr. Brain! I couldn't ...Thank you for Castle of Dr. Brain! I couldn't play it back in 1991 when I was 11, but I finished it some years ago and it was quite fun. The mazes were not the most fun part of it, but they were well done and entertaining.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-17038106364713595292022-06-11T05:39:02.715+10:002022-06-11T05:39:02.715+10:00"firm rule" --> "firm role"..."firm rule" --> "firm role" of courseCorey Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16772474266362396768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-72698549759230309912022-06-11T05:34:50.636+10:002022-06-11T05:34:50.636+10:00And even then people were at least trying to come ...And even then people were at least trying to come up with something more creative than just a "maze of twisty passages, all alike".<br /><br />And then we had the people making expanded versions of Adventure whose idea of creative mazes often was "what if the maze of twisty passages all alike was THREE times as big!!!". Fun times.Adamanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12424537596238450467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-50746074945961522342022-06-11T05:21:24.554+10:002022-06-11T05:21:24.554+10:00Mazes have been popular for most of human history....Mazes have been popular for most of human history. Theseus had to solve a diabolically difficult maze to slay the Minotaur, then make it out again. He needed a "cheat code" - a ball of yarn that Ariadne gave him - to track his path.<br /><br />Versailles and other palaces had huge garden mazes formed from hedges. People enjoyed exploring the mazes to find the center, and eventually the exit. There's a garden maze like that in the city of Boralus in World of Warcraft (The Battle for Azeroth expansion). It's very challenging, and actually has two useful "solutions" - one leads to a cellar, and the other to the center of the maze, each useful for a different puzzle.<br /><br />I loved solving - and creating - paper mazes when I was a kid. I think my brother taught me about the infamous "double spiral" - It looks as though you're following a spiral that will dead-end, but in the center it comes back out in a parallel spiral, possibly leading to the exit.<br /><br />It was natural for video game developers to include mazes in their games. The prototype was the "maze of twisty passages, all alike" in Colossal Cave Adventure, and the follow-up maze in which the descriptions of sections act as hints to the solution. "You are in a twisty maze of little passages, all different." "You are in a twisty little maze of passages, all different." Etc.<br /><br />RPG's such as Wizardry and Dungeon Master were all about 3D mazes. They were inspired by random dungeon generators for D&D, which I and other DM's used to create our first dungeons, and DND and other games on PLATO, one of which Andrew Greenberg and Robert Woodhead commercialized as Wizardry.<br /><br />I, and other players, created detailed paper maps of each level of those dungeon games. It was part of the gameplay. I still have some of those maps. You were never expected to be able to navigate the mazes by dead reckoning.<br /><br />I was very proud of my innovation in Castle of Dr. Brain of a "true 3D" maze in which you had to go up and down as well as left and right to get to the exit. The mazes are very small, but some people still hate them. For me, it was more about, "Can we do this?" than "Should we do this?"<br /><br />Love them or hate them, mazes have a firm rule both in the history of gaming and in world history. People have used them to challenge and conceal since the beginning of recorded history.Corey Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16772474266362396768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-72950457523567759562022-06-11T05:20:41.800+10:002022-06-11T05:20:41.800+10:00Yes I meant MPS Labs :)Yes I meant MPS Labs :)Vetinarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04734964199926068473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-47911124407230198912022-06-11T02:40:52.755+10:002022-06-11T02:40:52.755+10:00@Andy_Panthro10
"I'm strugling to think ...@Andy_Panthro10<br /><br />"I'm strugling to think of an adventure game maze that felt like it really was a good part of the game and served the story?"<br /><br />I liked the maze in Infocom's "Enchanter". It was just nine rooms, with no twists or turns, and you found a map describing it. The puzzle was that nybatfvqr gur znc, lbh sbhaq n zntvp crapvy naq renfre. Ol qenjvat be renfvat yvarf ba gur znc, lbh jbhyq punatr gur ynlbhg bs gur znmr. Gur znmr jnf n genc sbe na "napvrag greebe", naq lbh unq gb yher vg bhg bs vgf ebbz gb genc vg va nabgure cneg bs gur znmr.<br /><br />I also liked the glass maze in its sequel, Sorcerer, but that one pretty much required you to draw a map. But again, that was more of a puzzle since it was pretty easy once you had figured out how to map it and go through it safely. (Lbh unq gb ghea lbhefrys vagb n ong fb lbh pbhyq "frr" gur jnyyf, naq abg snyy va ebbzf jvgu ab sybbe.)<br /><br />But I think mazes generally worked a lot better in text adventures than in graphical adventures. Ok, so early eighties home computers weren't exactly fast, but going between rooms would hopefully be faster than watching your character slowly walk across the screen to the next room.<br /><br />And even then people were at least trying to come up with something more creative than just a "maze of twisty passages, all alike".Torbjörn Anderssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04853243855446674115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-88202078927159798762022-06-11T01:31:53.089+10:002022-06-11T01:31:53.089+10:00Even in the manga, Namek took way too long to expl...Even in the manga, Namek took way too long to explode... ;)<br /><br />Ironically, the Tournament of Power in Super is the opposite problem. Like 40 episodes of fighting for a battle ostensibly only a few minutes long. The manga pacing was much better.Joe Pranevichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997014242774219758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-2764349522927237462022-06-10T22:14:24.447+10:002022-06-10T22:14:24.447+10:00Dragonball is a masterclass in how time works diff...Dragonball is a masterclass in how time works differently in print media from video, that at a fundamental level, the percentage of your content that an event takes up in video is coupled to how long the event actually takes in linear time in a way it just isn't in print. Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09703211229982182936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-47242947327859487782022-06-10T21:52:33.793+10:002022-06-10T21:52:33.793+10:00I think back in the day, playing these games as ki...I think back in the day, playing these games as kids, the thing was that we've got all the time in the world, so we were more forgiving of mazes and design horrors like that. I remember playing Kyrandia 1 on my Amiga 500, and every time i change screens the loading time was for about two minutes. <br />My all time favourite game is Maniac Mansion. I`ve spent hours and hours playing it on my Commodore 64 when i was 12 years old. Besides the long loading times between screens, i`ve played that one with a joystick, so moving the cursor to the verb box, then to something on the screen, then to another thing in my inventory.....Today, i won`t stand all the wasted time it takes to do a simple action, but back then, i loved the game. <br />Now our patience rate time is minimal, like with everything else in life. Also, the designers of the time had to wrestle with such small megabytes (or even kbytes) capacity that i can`t judge them so harshly for doing rooms that looks all alike in a mazes....having said that, yeah, mazes suck. I remember the ones in Zak McKracken and chills runs through my spine....Leo Vellésnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-82165464257448472202022-06-10T18:54:07.932+10:002022-06-10T18:54:07.932+10:00I'd say the maze in ADVENT at least counts as ...I'd say the maze in ADVENT at least counts as a puzzle: you need to figure out that it becomes mappable if you drop items in each room. By now, everybody knows that; but back when the game was released, that strikes me as rather clever, and an unexpected use of existing game commands.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-79655196794221599422022-06-10T18:36:06.925+10:002022-06-10T18:36:06.925+10:00Me too! The next post should be next week at the l...Me too! The next post should be next week at the latest. It's about 90% drafted. (And from there, just one more post to the end.) Joe Pranevichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997014242774219758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-51120009572378819282022-06-10T15:58:56.824+10:002022-06-10T15:58:56.824+10:00Eh, regarding that last point, the creators of the...Eh, regarding that last point, the creators of the weekly Dragonball TV show were adapting the weekly Dragonball comic, which meant they had to put the plot of 14 pages of comics into 20 minutes of television. If those 14 pages involved a lot of fast-paced action, big panels and not all that much talking, you have to make up a lot of new and unnecessary material to fill the gaps between the maybe 5 minutes of content you got out of that chapter.<br />This is pretty standard for those long running adaptations of ongoing weekly comics where they catch up to the current chapters and need to go at a "one-chapter-per-episode" schedule out of pure necessity.Adamanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12424537596238450467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-89282653756238156382022-06-10T15:44:11.733+10:002022-06-10T15:44:11.733+10:00Imagine paying $200 and getting freaking Inca! A g...Imagine paying $200 and getting freaking Inca! A game that scored even worse than Phantom, again due to arduous filler sections.<br /><br />We must also remember that a LOT of adventure games had some kind of filler, probably because they could not think up/program/fit enough puzzles to make the games anything near long enough. But some games managed to make them at least interesting, while others just copied a bunch of rooms.<br /><br />And we do live in an age where filler is not enough, and sometimes I don't think it is a bad thing. Even if I had enough time now I still wouldn't play half the games I did in my youth, where a lot of them were terribly grind intensive, simply because I had learned there are better ways to spend the my time. TV is also a good example of this, look at the shows we watched when we were young, and a lot of the time you'll clearly see the creators struggling desperately to fill the time (looking at YOU dragon ball series!).ShaddamIVthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02024540172370536692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-66968687663851407722022-06-10T14:07:23.088+10:002022-06-10T14:07:23.088+10:00It depends a lot on HOW they're designed. Wiza...It depends a lot on HOW they're designed. Wizardry 4, which got mentioned, is absurdly difficult by design, but it's also very cleverly designed and very fun to map and work your way through if you can handle the extreme difficulty. The maze in Zork? Eeeehhh I don't think the game would be worse if it got removed.<br /><br />One interesting anecdote I remember regarding difficulty and design comes from Peter Harrap, creator of the iconic(in Britain)/obscure(everywhere else) Monty Mole, a puzzle-adventure-platformer series where the first game is somewhat infamous for forcing you to walk under a series of crushers that will randomly come down and kill you without any observable pattern. Kind of annoying when you don't have a whole lot of lives and get sent back to the start of the game when you run out. <br />Why are they in the game? To make it harder. The game just randomly kills you regularly without you being able to do anything about it to make it harder for you to beat it. Harrap considered this perfectly fine design. And he still does, here's a quote from a 2011 interview: "There are some things I've still got a great fondness for. I know some people didn't like the crushers coming down randomly and hitting them. I still like that; I like a bit of a shock on people."<br /><br />As much as I enjoy a good challenge, that's a pretty fine example of design philosophy marching on right there.Adamanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12424537596238450467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-1483163282897702112022-06-10T12:27:39.618+10:002022-06-10T12:27:39.618+10:00The thing about that is that between Computer Gami...The thing about that is that between Computer Gaming World, the German magazines and Pelit, I was expecting someone to be all, "yo, this game has a horrible maze in it, don't buy, 42/100". These are magazines I expected to have something of an informed take on the matter, and they all failed it. I mean, I would expect someone like Roe Adams III to enjoy this, but us mortal folk would be better served with even a mediocre game that doesn't have a huge goddamn maze in it.<br />(we're not going to talk about anything other than that, are we?)<br />That said, I feel like RPG mazes are a different story, while I haven't played a Wizardry game, I have played a few dungeon crawlers, proper ones, Dungeon Master and an obscure Japanese one, along with a few titles vaguely connected to the genre. Thing is, in the mazes in those games, there is actually a reason for them to exist, because they at least try to make them interesting. There's stuff in them; There's hidden stuff in the walls and you have to figure out where; The act of making the map itself is part of the game, and from a first-person perspective is more interesting than adventure game perspective.<br />That said the general concept of mazes like the ones in ADVENT or Myst were clever, just not something every single game needs to have. Mazes like this one, and a lot of the ones that are in games Jason Dyer covers just go out of the tier of being padding and just come off as sick. And as Ross mentions, in an era where ten thousand other things demand your attention, that's something that just isn't going to please anyone. I stand by my statement that I wouldn't have finished this game if I weren't blogging about it.MorpheusKitamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16591271981112642781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-7903565670777783652022-06-10T12:00:02.255+10:002022-06-10T12:00:02.255+10:00There is just so much wrong with the writing in th...There is just so much wrong with the writing in this and I can't really talk about why since if I did, I would technically be ruining a future game, because the reason why this strikes me as being just incredibly awful ties into that future game. Which adds a great deal of frustration to the whole thing!MorpheusKitamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16591271981112642781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-23240752421675602232022-06-10T11:57:16.648+10:002022-06-10T11:57:16.648+10:00Just MPS Labs, right? I believe that, then again, ...Just MPS Labs, right? I believe that, then again, I don't particularly think I want to find out. Otherwise, I think the Star Trek: The Next Generation adventure game involved someone at Microprose, and the revival one is publishing a few adventure games.MorpheusKitamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16591271981112642781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-52318585725651185022022-06-10T09:24:47.392+10:002022-06-10T09:24:47.392+10:00Can someone please finish "Stationfall"?...Can someone please finish "Stationfall"?<br />I NEED CLOSURE!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-44857699437924760332022-06-10T08:38:26.080+10:002022-06-10T08:38:26.080+10:00Thinking about it, did the developers of Myst ever...Thinking about it, did the developers of Myst ever mention having played ADVENT? Because there are two games that are obviously not related to ADVENT's use of it that are coming to my mind, (both adventure games) Myst and Yume Nikki. We'd never really know if Yume Nikki's developer ever played any classic adventure games though.<br /><br />Dunno about Jutland, but that's some serious cash for a game that's really not going to last that long. And the prices of those games don't bear that out these days, since you could probably pick up all three for the pre-inflation price, CIB.MorpheusKitamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16591271981112642781noreply@blogger.com