tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post5022083450158713839..comments2024-03-29T05:52:53.051+11:00Comments on The Adventurers Guild: Game 23: Zak McKracken - Headline SolutionsThe Tricksterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-3206021148322508842016-10-11T18:32:09.959+11:002016-10-11T18:32:09.959+11:00A good revelant article:
That Doesn't Work!
...A good revelant article:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.adventuregamers.com/articles/view/17773" rel="nofollow">That Doesn't Work!</a><br /><br />The rest of Yahtzee's article series is also worth a read:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.adventuregamers.com/articles/view/17786" rel="nofollow">Playing the Fool</a><br /><a href="http://www.adventuregamers.com/articles/view/17833" rel="nofollow">Use Key on Door</a><br /><a href="http://www.adventuregamers.com/articles/view/17875" rel="nofollow">Tell Me a Story</a>Laukkuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16258625692586860655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-68353777931400932442016-10-11T15:30:16.729+11:002016-10-11T15:30:16.729+11:00To jump in on a four year old conversation, there&...To jump in on a four year old conversation, there's some value in puzzles having a single solution, though. It trains the player in solving future puzzles. Providing the rest of the game is well designed, the player is entitled to expect that, once they solve those initial puzzles - which should be fairly simple - the processes and logic they applied there will continue to be a sound basis for solving the rest of the game. They know what the scope of the puzzle space is and a little about the mind that designed it.<br /><br />The more puzzle solutions you accept, the more you dilute that purity of communication between designer and player, and the more likely you are to frustrate the player that logic and solutions that work in one place don't work in another. Again, sufficiently good design can overcome that but I'm not sure the benefit justifies the increased cost of success and likelihood of frustration.GregThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01532920274312703426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-13538409343397472612012-09-05T20:49:27.826+10:002012-09-05T20:49:27.826+10:00In my case, I remembered the puzzle in Maniac Mans...In my case, I remembered the puzzle in Maniac Mansion with the key under the doormat right on the very first screen, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to take a look under the carpet. :-)Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04860506019349657883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-31546340420910259272012-09-05T20:30:26.493+10:002012-09-05T20:30:26.493+10:00Wow! I had no idea about the hole in the floor. Wh...Wow! I had no idea about the hole in the floor. Why did you guys even try picking up the carpet in the first place? Was there something that caught your attention or were you just experimenting?The Tricksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-57751987703946555962012-08-22T21:25:28.518+10:002012-08-22T21:25:28.518+10:00Regarding the Maniac Mansion THX reference, vs V&#...Regarding the Maniac Mansion THX reference, vs V'z abg ragveryl zvfgnxra, lbh unq gb hfr gur 'Ernq' ireo ba gur yvprafr cyngr gb trg gur GUK-1138 ersrerapr. Vyybtvpny, fvapr gur cyngr pyrneyl ernqf RQFRY ba lbhe fperrafubg. Be creuncf gur ersrerapr bayl rkvfgf ba gur P-64 irefvba?unimuralhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06987909304909067445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-11908596146021194652012-08-18T13:24:09.110+10:002012-08-18T13:24:09.110+10:00Thought some of you might like this; New game, tho...Thought some of you might like this; New game, though not crowdfunded: http://www.reddit.com/r/IndieGaming/comments/ye11j/go_to_hell_dave_bringing_point_and_click_to_the/Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-84824089948223462322012-08-18T09:15:54.111+10:002012-08-18T09:15:54.111+10:00Well I guess QFG is the best example, but that may...Well I guess QFG is the best example, but that may be due to it being as much an RPG as an adventure game (although the two genres do share a fondness for random item collection and lots of dialogue).<br /><br />I guess the main reason Zak allows multiple puzzle solutions in certain situations is to avoid you becoming dead-ended, which is a very different motivation from QFGs multiple solutions for each character class.Andy_Panthrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231815646876343380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-80407429034739280902012-08-18T00:50:02.883+10:002012-08-18T00:50:02.883+10:00TBD: in 1988 I think EVERY game had super thin plo...TBD: in 1988 I think EVERY game had super thin plots. Except for Portal, but that might not even count as a game. <br /><br />I'm trying to think of the first moderately detailed plot in a game I can remember. The first I can think of would be Goldeneye, though I suspect there were games before that. Also, not sure if that counts, since it was copying the movie. <br /><br />The first game I recall really caring about the plot was Baldurs Gate from 1999. <br /><br />I have heard of Gabrial Knight; I'm really looking forward to it. Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-33973141799043448592012-08-18T00:24:51.902+10:002012-08-18T00:24:51.902+10:00Yes and know. JRPGs usually only have one. Dependi...Yes and know. JRPGs usually only have one. Depending on the year RPGs may have more, or they may just be kill it all. <br /><br />Old FPS usually have lots of tactics you can use, modern ones are too obsessed with telling a story and cool set pieces.Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-83704247415739216572012-08-17T18:15:50.524+10:002012-08-17T18:15:50.524+10:00Based on hazy recollections:
Chamber of the Sci-M...Based on hazy recollections:<br /><br />Chamber of the Sci-Mutant Priestess: I've played it only little, but it seemed serious enough<br />Codename Iceman: as serious as it gets<br />Hero's Quest: it does have silly moments, but IMO the main plot is somewhat serious (well, the ending is perhaps silly...)<br />Neuromancer: despite the connection to the very serious book, it has some quite silly dialogue<br />The Colonel's Bequest: pretty seriousIlmari Jauhiainenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01655841880034965950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-80841800395914241712012-08-17T15:57:34.400+10:002012-08-17T15:57:34.400+10:00I'm a big fan of storytelling in games, but RP...I'm a big fan of storytelling in games, but RPGs generally do better in that regard IMO.<br /><br />Sure, in 1988, CRPGs were doing epic, but apart from Ultima V and Wasteland, the game plots were still largely wafer-thin. Even most of Wasteland's dialogue had to be read from the instruction manual so I'm thinking detailed/interesting dialogue wasn't really doable on computers at this point.<br /><br />But adventure games do get a lot better in that regard as the years roll by. Some of the best game stories ever are the 3 games in the Gabriel Knight series, in my opinion.<br /><br />As for serious v silly, for the 10 games in 1989 I've played 4 of them and 3 are serious (Indy3, Manhunter 2 and Mean Streets) and 1 silly (SQ3).<br /><br />Larry3 will obviously be silly and I'm guessing Chamber of the Sci-Mutant Princess and Hero's Quest will be too.<br /><br />The others (based purely on their names) sound serious to me. So my guess is 1989 - 6 serious, 4 silly.TBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13815382857422719383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-21940074096619997182012-08-17T14:54:52.342+10:002012-08-17T14:54:52.342+10:00In fact, I was mainly talking about the paths in p...In fact, I was mainly talking about the paths in pure adventure games. Whatever my love for Day of the Tentacle or Monkey Islands is, you have to admit that all you do is follow one path of solving. The recent "mainstream" point and click adventure games (Runaways and whatnot) have the same logic. One path, one puzzle, one solution. It's not a big deal and it's all part of the "point and click" canon, but I miss the liberty you can find in games like Maniac Mansion and this one.<br /><br />RPGs are a different thing, you're right, and usually have a lot of different paths/solutions to one problem.Alfred n the Fettuchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15586336731691674651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-81032205192878536342012-08-17T14:39:28.890+10:002012-08-17T14:39:28.890+10:00Alfred: There are 3 endings to Mass Effects 3, and...Alfred: There are 3 endings to Mass Effects 3, and many, many more choices you can make during the game. Every few years someone comes out claiming that multiple endings are going to be the next big thing in gaming. Mass Effect 3, Deus Ex and so on.Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-65343150868128686322012-08-17T14:33:17.615+10:002012-08-17T14:33:17.615+10:00We'll have to get Trickster posting clips when...We'll have to get Trickster posting clips when we reach the FMV era.Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-39902259174228803002012-08-17T14:32:26.992+10:002012-08-17T14:32:26.992+10:00You just wanted a chance to use ROT13, didn't ...You just wanted a chance to use ROT13, didn't you Trickster?Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-2089894679823763242012-08-17T14:30:07.491+10:002012-08-17T14:30:07.491+10:00I'm the one who asked you to lengthen things o...I'm the one who asked you to lengthen things out way back when; I'm quite enjoying the detail in the posts, I just wish you'd get to a more serious game. While I can enjoy quirkyness, Lucasarts adventure games never really held much draw for me. X-Win, Tie Fighter and Dark Forces on the other hand....<br /><br />I can't wait for us to advance a few years and get to some more serious games. Seriously, the game that I most remember is Uninvited, since it had a creepy-serious plot, even if it wasn't very well done. <br /><br /><br />Lets see: <br /><br />Below the Root: Not much of a plot, but serious.<br />King's Quest: Quest for the Crown: Silly.<br />Déjà Vu: Serious.<br />King's Quest II: Romancing the Throne: Silly.<br />King's Quest III: To Heir Is Human: Silly. <br />Space Quest: The Sarien Encounter: Silly.<br />Tass Times in Tonetown: Silly. <br />The Black Cauldron: Serious (Kinda) <br />Uninvited: Serious <br />Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards: Silly.<br />Maniac Mansion: Silly <br />Mortville Manor: Serious <br />Police Quest: In Pursuit of the Death Angel: Serious, kinda?<br />Shadowgate: Serious <br />Space Quest II: Vohaul's Revenge: Silly <br />Captain Blood: Serious?<br />Gold Rush!: Serious (but lighthearted) <br />King's Quest IV: The Perils of Rosella: Silly <br />Leisure Suit Larry Goes Looking for Love (in Several Wrong Places): Silly<br />Manhunter: New York: Serious <br />Police Quest II: The Vengeance: Serious<br />Psycho: Serious<br />Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders: Silly<br /><br />12/23: Less then half, and quite a few of those are nearly plotless or are terrible, terrible games. RPGs managed to do epic quests this early, FPSes are starting to (Wolfenstine 3D and DOOM both had very basic, single-paragraph plots, but still cool ones). <br /><br />I've heard about some of the later adventure games being great for storytelling; Is this true, or do they mostly stay like this?Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-28188014454498423382012-08-17T10:24:09.411+10:002012-08-17T10:24:09.411+10:00What other games have this feature besides the Que...What other games have this feature besides the Quest for Glory games? Open-solution puzzles? Evan Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18049739394359362973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-53595694835448224772012-08-17T07:12:11.508+10:002012-08-17T07:12:11.508+10:00Actually my speculation on how to pay the bill (ab...Actually my speculation on how to pay the bill (above) had a fault in logic.. <br /><br />Lbh boivbhfyl pnaabg znxr gur cubar pnyy gb gur Gryrcubar Pbzcnal, hayrff lbh nyernql cnvq gur ovyy. Ohg arireguryrff, gur znva cbvag fgnlf gung gurer ner guerr nygreangvir fbyhgvbaf ba ubj gb ragre gur onpx ebbz: 1. Qvfthvfvat nf na nyvra 2. Guebhtu gur orqebbz sybbe jvgu gur ebcr naq 3. Znxvat n cenax pnyy gb GCP naq jnyxvat va..Fenrushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17119088094426124666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-15187544400805219842012-08-17T04:39:14.929+10:002012-08-17T04:39:14.929+10:00By the way, what's enjoyable with this game is...By the way, what's enjoyable with this game is that there are various ways to accomplish things. Not main puzzles, as far as I know, but little things to move forward. For example, I never realized you could use the kazoo to wake up the bus driver: I have always woken him up by tapping on the door with something (golf club, monkey wrench, etc... various items work).<br /><br />Same thing about the squirrel, I initially clubbed him to death until I remembered the peanuts.<br />Cedrichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13274064962794267826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-54414928867235727392012-08-17T04:36:22.252+10:002012-08-17T04:36:22.252+10:00I have such good memories of Zak that I decided to...I have such good memories of Zak that I decided to replay it at the same time as you, and I'm having a great time so far. I'm a little bit ahead of you and I haven't read any spoiler so far, but my vague memories of the puzzles have helped me a couple of times. I have already restarted the game from scratch a few times, by the way, so expect to do that as well.<br /><br />By the way, another reference you might have missed is the $42 price tag of the book: most likely a nod to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.<br />Cedrichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13274064962794267826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-6531625341949814862012-08-16T22:01:58.609+10:002012-08-16T22:01:58.609+10:00Next gameplay post will be up tomorrow. I've f...Next gameplay post will be up tomorrow. I've finished writing it, but have run out of time to apply screenshots and captions. Very tough at work this week. So...very...tired...zzzzzzzzzz.The Tricksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-82014933344297253962012-08-16T08:46:30.387+10:002012-08-16T08:46:30.387+10:00And I finished it. http://imgur.com/plaYn
Resorte...And I finished it. http://imgur.com/plaYn<br /><br />Resorted to using a walkthrough FAR too much, but got there in the end. Will save what I thought of it until Trickster's "Won!" post.Andy_Panthrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231815646876343380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-30284872521699978782012-08-15T15:10:42.296+10:002012-08-15T15:10:42.296+10:00I also appreciate all these various ways to get th...I also appreciate all these various ways to get things done. Good game design! Evan Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18049739394359362973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-36492571877168837912012-08-15T14:12:23.094+10:002012-08-15T14:12:23.094+10:00Fb znal qvssrerag fbyhgvbaf sbe bar ceboyrz vf ern...Fb znal qvssrerag fbyhgvbaf sbe bar ceboyrz vf ernyyl njrfbzr. Gbb onq gur uhtr znwbevgl bs nqiragher tnzrf vf bayl "bar cngu, bar fbyhgvba". V guvax bapr ntnva vg'f n fvta bs gur gvzrf : qrfvtavat zhygvcyr fbyhgvbaf sbe n chmmyr vf purncre jura lbh qba'g unir gb navzngr/svyz/znxr ibvprf sbe fbzrguvat unys bs gur cynlref jba'g frr... be znlor gur qrirybcref unir whfg orpbzr ynml ;)Alfred n the Fettuchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15586336731691674651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-16224402334611472802012-08-15T12:54:14.046+10:002012-08-15T12:54:14.046+10:00After reading what Jarikith, Fenrus and Chumazik d...After reading what Jarikith, Fenrus and Chumazik did that I missed totally, I'm liking the game even more. There's so many different ways to do things.<br /><br />I think this game would have been considered an all-time classic if it didn't have the pbafgnag ercrgvgvir znmrfTBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13815382857422719383noreply@blogger.com