tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post3125942024493058620..comments2024-03-19T11:49:03.997+11:00Comments on The Adventurers Guild: Missed Classic: Dungeon - Go Ask AliceThe Tricksterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-63217606364747534762023-06-03T08:24:03.322+10:002023-06-03T08:24:03.322+10:00Don't know if anyone is still reading these --...Don't know if anyone is still reading these -- I just found this today. But here is a story: Two friends and I played this in college in 1980-81. We solved nearly everything, but we could never find the last treasure. We hacked the source to play the endgame, but could never get there the right way. Towards the end of the year, our professor did a memory dump and we scanned the binary looking for text strings (before the Internet spoilers) so we knew we needed a bauble, and we knew we needed the songbird, but not how to get the egg open. Then the last night of school, while packing up the lab, one of us finally found text in the memory dump about the thief opening the egg. We had saves done with EVERYTHING solved but the last treasure, but of course, we had always killed the Thief by then. Talk about dead men (and woman) walking. In horror, we realized the only way to win would be to play the game from start to finish in one night so we could get it done right. Let's just say we were very tired at graduation, but we finished the game.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-69288861009185867102022-11-01T23:54:30.775+11:002022-11-01T23:54:30.775+11:00So up to 643 points but can't find the last th...So up to 643 points but can't find the last three hmm.........Rocking Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05102011252863475180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-56062939133371215432020-04-23T13:29:01.594+10:002020-04-23T13:29:01.594+10:00Prescient of you to think that the Round Room need...Prescient of you to think that the Round Room needed a "secret room" exit.Nathanaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-1268612109858499862016-11-04T15:07:32.068+11:002016-11-04T15:07:32.068+11:00I ran into issues in the 646 version with the lant...I ran into issues in the 646 version with the lantern having inexplicably short life on some restores/restarts. I think there's a latent bug in that version where the lantern doesn't always get its battery life replenished when you restore or restart. Quitting out entirely and then reloading the game - and then restoring your save after doing that - seemed to help.Voltglosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07893726442063421240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-25939599540501242622016-11-04T13:48:09.519+11:002016-11-04T13:48:09.519+11:00I'm puzzling through the 626 version myself ri...I'm puzzling through the 626 version myself right now- it's Juuuuust different enough from the Zork I that I have in my head that I'm completely stuck at points.<br /><br />I'm running into issues with my lantern not lasting very long- I suspect it's points AND turn based or soemthing, because as soon as I _NEED_ it to explore more near my concept of endgame, it keeps winking out. And that's a pain. Natehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00185999316656568047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-17992510879958249002016-11-02T01:34:36.698+11:002016-11-02T01:34:36.698+11:00You should be fine. I spent some time calculating...You should be fine. I spent some time calculating different point totals, and the three puzzles that I am pretty sure your version lacks (which includes the puzzle requiring the rope) are worth exactly enough points to make up the difference between your 585 and my 646.Voltglosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07893726442063421240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-10688952722931913052016-11-01T07:54:28.197+11:002016-11-01T07:54:28.197+11:00Btw, I checked and the rope is no longer there tie...Btw, I checked and the rope is no longer there tied to the railing. So... it's gone. I hope you are right and that I do not need it.Joe Pranevichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997014242774219758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-56672036425091583222016-10-28T04:59:50.862+11:002016-10-28T04:59:50.862+11:00Waving the stick has to be an Adventure reference,...Waving the stick has to be an Adventure reference, as there's a place you have to wave the black rod.Reikohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07326356159794723662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-91855216296560855252016-10-28T00:08:06.162+11:002016-10-28T00:08:06.162+11:00Ah. Yeah, my mistake on the reservoir. I had marke...Ah. Yeah, my mistake on the reservoir. I had marked that I couldn't go east from the stream view with the coffin which is incorrect. I just checked and you are right that you can get there to cross the drained reservoir no problem. A more elegant solution! Thanks for correcting me.<br /><br />Yes, the trapdoor slamming shut is an annoyance. I had not realized that they lowered the difficulty in the subsequent version by leaving it open after a point. That would have helped a lot!Joe Pranevichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997014242774219758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-42309388866068721062016-10-27T22:22:41.472+11:002016-10-27T22:22:41.472+11:00Sorry, I'm not being clear about the geography...Sorry, I'm not being clear about the geography. I'm not talking about walking up the stream bed - I'm talking about crossing the drained reservoir. I.e., going through the room with the trunk of jewels. I'll give the game another go later today so I can explain a bit better how I got the coffin out. (Which isn't a spoiler for the Zork games by the way - the coffin is moved in those and so its extraction becomes a much different puzzle.)<br /><br />That's really interesting that you still have to deal with the trapdoor slamming shut. In my version, as soon as you find and use one non-chimney route back above ground, the trapdoor STOPS shutting - so you can start using that as an exit route as well.Voltglosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07893726442063421240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-31388017528988915922016-10-27T12:41:18.040+11:002016-10-27T12:41:18.040+11:00OH! I completely didn't notice that you could ...OH! I completely didn't notice that you could walk up the stream bed after the reservoir was drained. That makes some amount of sense, especially since I noticed that you could raft up that way when it was full. I don't think the description changed in the "Stream View" so I assumed that the stream was too far upstream to be affected by the draining. (Yeah... and... er... if you emptied the reservoir, HOW would the stream feeding it be affected?)<br /><br />The trapdoor still slams shut each time. That is why finding alternate exits has been so critical. (Five so far: the chimney, the grate, the rainbow, the prayer, and the cyclops-hole.) None of them are particularly convenient, but I have a little note on my map: "e, w, u" to the skeleton then "sw, e, s, ne" to cyclops or "sw, u, w, sw, ne" to grate.Joe Pranevichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997014242774219758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-50349347281212154472016-10-27T08:59:27.616+11:002016-10-27T08:59:27.616+11:00- Yes, you did mention the "eye poking,"...- Yes, you did mention the "eye poking," which is in the engravings, not the black book. And it's not the clue to Odysseus that I'm referencing. Read the black book passage again! (In particular... ernq qbja vafgrnq bs npebff!)<br /><br />- You didn't miss an exit. Rather, I think you were trying to move the coffin around *before* you'd drained the reservoir. From the Egyptian room, you can carry the coffin up (to the glacier), north (to Stream View), and east to Reservoir South. With the reservoir drained you can then cart it across to the Atlantis Room.<br /><br />- There are no clues for the stick/rainbow other than the "very good" you mention when waving the stick. I have to think it's an Adventure reference and quite hard to suss out otherwise. I know what they did with this puzzle for Zork I - I won't say what; but I think it's much fairer there.<br /><br />- I can still give the sandwich to the Cyclops, but without being able to give him water afterwards doing so is of no help. The sandwich IS there but, due to this "feature," seems useless.<br /><br />- Incidentally... does the trapdoor still slam shut behind you when you go down from the trophy case? Voltglosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07893726442063421240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-66914870672146377722016-10-27T08:47:40.542+11:002016-10-27T08:47:40.542+11:00Ha, we're thinking about some of the same issu...Ha, we're thinking about some of the same issues. See my "various observations" post below where I address both of those, along with another parser oddity involving the robot.<br /><br />I did have to "open bottle" in my version as well, but not for the Cyclops - I had to do that before I could pour water into the bucket.<br /><br />Tightening up parser issues is, I think, one of the major improvements the Infocom folks made when transforming Dungeon into the commercially released Zork games.Voltglosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07893726442063421240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-39031796452532328242016-10-27T08:45:13.496+11:002016-10-27T08:45:13.496+11:00Great feedback!
- I noticed (did I write about i...Great feedback! <br /><br />- I noticed (did I write about it?) that I thought that the book implied that I needed to poke the cyclops with the stick. Or maybe I read that in the Engravings Room? In either event, I did not connect that reference to Odysseus although in retrospect I see how that "makes sense". Sort of. And pocking him with the stick did not help.<br /><br />- I may have to check my map, but I don't believe that you can get to the reservoir from the coffin room to cross it that way. If I missed an exit, that is unfortunate... I thought for sure you'd either need to stash it in the volcano and get it that way OR have a way to pass through the ice. I haven't figured out either of those yet.<br /><br />- Does your version give any hints for the stick being what to use for the rainbow? I swear (don't tell me) that it was the crystal trident in Zork I. Just a random pointy stick seems... random and nonsensical.<br /><br />- If you can't give the cyclops water, what does the sandwich do? Is there still a sandwich in that version?<br /><br />Thank you for playing along!<br /><br /> Joe Pranevichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997014242774219758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-9522864716353772982016-10-27T08:32:18.884+11:002016-10-27T08:32:18.884+11:00Various observations on already-solved puzzles:
-...Various observations on already-solved puzzles:<br /><br />- In the 646-point version, "exorcism" doesn't work to banish the evil spirits. It doesn't do anything at all in fact. "Exorcise" works as a verb, but only to provoke the response (from the game), "You must perform the ceremony." You then have to go through the actual steps of the exorcism cemetery, which is likely what you're remembering from playing Zork I.<br /><br />- Giving the cyclops the water seems impossible in the 646-point version. I suspect this is because, in that version, you get 5 points for reaching the "Strange Passage" location (the "looney tunes passage" that the cyclops opens by running away when you mention Odysseus). If the lunch-and-water solution worked in that version, you'd miss out on those 5 points.<br /><br />- Speaking of the cyclops: "Odysseus" IS clued. Read the black book carefully! Fun additional fact: the Roman version, "Ulysses," also works.<br /><br />- According to the Zork I hints, your fighting prowess against the Thief is dependent on your score. So the more of the game you've solved, the better equipped you are to defeat him. They also suggested that the nasty knife from the house is a marginally better weapon against him than is your sword.<br /><br />- Letting the Thief do the "heavy lifting" with the gold coffin is a perfectly legit solution. I suspect there are multiple ways to get the coffin out of the underground. I personally was able to get it to an exit after having drained the reservoir, and walking it across there to the mirror-and-coal-mine area.<br /><br />- I'm glad you figured out/remembered the clockwork canary. That's the "dead man walking" scenario I had in mind when this project started - killing the Thief without having him open the egg. The game is fairly obtuse about that issue, in my opinion. I vaguely recall Zork adds some kind of extra clue as to that puzzle (and several other puzzles you've already encountered).<br /><br />- As I understand it, the thinking behind the well is "what would make a magic well rise? When it's filled with water, of course."<br /><br />- I had parser trouble with the robot-cage-sphere puzzle. Telling the robot to "break," "get," "open," or "move" the cage got me nowhere. Only "lift" and "raise" seem to work there as verbs.Voltglosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07893726442063421240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-28896571854789065442016-10-27T08:25:18.802+11:002016-10-27T08:25:18.802+11:00This post has a lot of parser weirdness. Does that...This post has a lot of parser weirdness. Does that happen in your version? Did the "open water" and "exorcism" commands work for you or did you have to solve the cyclops and gates of Hell in some other way?Joe Pranevichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997014242774219758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-34644364058319419282016-10-27T08:24:08.862+11:002016-10-27T08:24:08.862+11:00Thanks for the hints. I'm not going to look at...Thanks for the hints. I'm not going to look at the YET, but my next post may be a request for assistance. I've solved one more big puzzle after this but cannot figure out how to get farther. I'm going to try very hard to solve it without help, but we'll see...<br /><br />In retrospect, I wish I had played the 646 point version but it is so hard to know what the original game was. That version has all the puzzles of the final game (I think), but a more advanced parser than was available in 1979. My version has something very close to the original parser but seems to be missing a couple more puzzles.<br /><br />(But DAMN, this game has so many puzzles. Do we really need even more of them?)Joe Pranevichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997014242774219758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-21541596919179239242016-10-27T07:52:06.496+11:002016-10-27T07:52:06.496+11:00I've played this before. But the version I'...I've played this before. But the version I'm used to has 646 points. I don't think you need the rope anymore. (The puzzle that's missing does appear in a future Zork game, however.)<br /><br />You shouldn't be allowed to enter the endgame without all the treasures. In particular, I think you've still missed one particular area where you haven't solved a puzzle. If you must know (ROT13ed): gel gb trg cnfg gur tynpvre.<br /><br />As for the "unknown implementor" room, lbh qcb'g arrq gb or gurer lrg. <br /><br />And the round room having seven exits: I assume that is intensional. Perhaps the developers were trying to lead you to the area to turn it off.<br /><br />And one final nudge: Gur ubyr ol gur guves'f ynve vfa'g n qrnq raq!Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14964327130433897942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-48862405469098692432016-10-27T06:57:08.400+11:002016-10-27T06:57:08.400+11:00OK, good. If your version had the puzzle I'm ...OK, good. If your version had the puzzle I'm referencing, then looking into the sphere would have had an effect (and the sphere would be identified as having a color). If it doesn't, then you shouldn't need to worry about missing your rope.Voltglosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07893726442063421240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-23594327136161150312016-10-27T03:55:51.491+11:002016-10-27T03:55:51.491+11:00Thank you! I will check tonight. If I have painsta...Thank you! I will check tonight. If I have painstakingly searched EVERY ROOM in this game again-- including every room in the mazes-- and the rope was right where I left it the whole time... I will be displeased.<br /><br />The sphere does not seem to have a color, btw, but I will check tonight. I thought to look into it like a crystal ball but that didn't work, but I may have only done that while it was sitting in its room rather than when it was being held. Joe Pranevichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997014242774219758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-72082941351400808032016-10-27T03:38:11.584+11:002016-10-27T03:38:11.584+11:00Whether you need the rope again depends entirely o...Whether you need the rope again depends entirely on whether a certain puzzle that's in the 646 point version is also in your version. Unfortunately I'm not sure whether that's the case, as one of the treasures I thought was missing in yours (the crystal sphere) is apparently intact.<br /><br />I'm trying to think about how to confirm whether you need the rope while not spoiling anything for you. Let's try this first: does the crystal sphere have a color? <br /><br />Oh, separate thought: are you *sure* the rope is gone? In my version at least, it won't show up in the room description after you've tied it to the railing. Try "untie rope" in the railing room and see if you get a positive response. (It is quite possible the Thief moved it - I had that happen to me - but this is at least worth testing.)Voltglosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07893726442063421240noreply@blogger.com