tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post2978639132702884534..comments2024-03-28T18:43:06.423+11:00Comments on The Adventurers Guild: The Quest for Ten Pissed CharactersThe Tricksterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-9879637666805644742012-07-23T09:01:10.208+10:002012-07-23T09:01:10.208+10:00Woot! Do I have enough to force you to play a coup...Woot! Do I have enough to force you to play a couple of games yet?Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-42699007956830386582012-07-23T08:57:08.281+10:002012-07-23T08:57:08.281+10:00I look forward to seeing what Dave comes up with. ...I look forward to seeing what Dave comes up with. :)<br /><br />In the meantime, I wanted to hand out some CAPs to those I felt made a significant contribution to this discussion.<br /><br />rotgrub gets 10 because I really like his grading chart idea<br />Mooki and Canageek also get 10 for the statistical effort they put in<br />Lars-Erik, JosephCurwen, Andy_Panthro, Knurek, Ilmari and Charles all get 5 points for their contributions.<br /><br />Thanks all!The Tricksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-12780460888709722372012-07-23T08:49:13.199+10:002012-07-23T08:49:13.199+10:00I'm going to give you 10 points Canageek for a...I'm going to give you 10 points Canageek for all your work in this post, but I think there needs to be some clarity around what sales and game announcements people get CAPs for.<br /><br />I'll think about it.The Tricksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-25828064781897604622012-07-21T22:55:10.948+10:002012-07-21T22:55:10.948+10:00Irony at its best!
I failed Computer Studies at s...Irony at its best!<br /><br />I failed Computer Studies at school because I didn't have a PC at home to learn on. Now I'm an IT Manager of a global company. Things often don't turn out the way you expect them to. :)The Tricksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-46016048664284464252012-07-21T17:08:23.515+10:002012-07-21T17:08:23.515+10:00I started out trying to triple-major in College (M...I started out trying to triple-major in College (Math / Comp Sci / Poli Sci), then dropped the Political Science. Strangely enough, even though I spent more time doing computer stuff than anything else, I ended up with just a Math major. The reason? One Math class - Statistics - too few to qualify for a CompSci degree. :-)<br /><br />So I like to say I majored in Mathematics because I didn't take enough Math to be a Computer Science major.Corey Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16772474266362396768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-76086987739801833592012-07-15T14:27:38.934+10:002012-07-15T14:27:38.934+10:00Personally for me, I'm not too concerned that ...Personally for me, I'm not too concerned that the scores cluster closely around a certain average. And I guess it also depends on whether the Trickster thinks his ratings will trend upward as we go into the 1990s, because if they do then there will be a somewhat more of a spread.<br /><br />If Trickster thinks that some games will go up as high as the 80s, then yes let's leave those categories/pictures rare. Let's allow the best to be an elite few. If, however, you don't see many games going above 70, then we can set the "bands" to be closer to each other.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-35562965614145319132012-07-14T03:27:38.547+10:002012-07-14T03:27:38.547+10:00"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics&qu..."There are lies, damn lies, and statistics" Mark Twain (iirc)<br /><br />Your point about weighting to early games is true. Using the running average, however, does emphasize that the more games get played the harder it is to move the average score. This reduces the noise level of average games; making any perturbation on the running average line the indication that a significant game occured.<br /><br />Perhaps what you may have wanted to use is a "moving average" where at each step you average only the adjacent games together. Each data point would be the average score of that game and the games immediately preceeding and following.<br /><br />Taking the moving average fit to a linear trendline gives an R^2 value of 0.068. This is a truely atrocious R^2 value indicating that the ratings scores are not following a linear relationship.<br /><br />All that that implies is that as time progresses the quality of games is not improving or decreasing. This is intriguing to me, because intuitively one would think that due to the learning nature of "art" you get better with more practice. Adventure games have so far not demonstrated that principle. The only category that is improving is graphics (R^2 of ~0.4, really bad but starting to ressemble something you can declare a trend). Every other category has a R^2 value of < 0.2 which means there has been no linear relationship between time and quality.Mookihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08418365259893960483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-38347472303951098832012-07-14T01:57:42.148+10:002012-07-14T01:57:42.148+10:00Ah, I was plotting the absolute value, not the run...Ah, I was plotting the absolute value, not the running average. What justification is there for averaging things as you go along? I would have thought you should use the absolute value, since otherwise you are going to weight your line towards early games, since they have less points averaged in.Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-60185506759996398512012-07-14T01:35:02.053+10:002012-07-14T01:35:02.053+10:00That's an impressive list. I kinda want to dra...That's an impressive list. I kinda want to draw them all, so i think i'll start sketching this week and see what happens. :)Dave_the_Turniphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10936724545186944875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-27708279291942898942012-07-14T00:53:49.648+10:002012-07-14T00:53:49.648+10:00My only suggestion for all this is have the list m...My only suggestion for all this is have the list mirror itself. With the protagonist from a game in the high rating flipped to the antagonist from the same game or series for the low scale. If Guybrush is 91-100 and the best of the best then LeChuck should be the worst of worst at 1-10.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-22903360278096240522012-07-13T23:42:39.632+10:002012-07-13T23:42:39.632+10:00Trickster:
See my above comment. Rotgrub's m...Trickster:<br /><br />See my above comment. Rotgrub's method does not provide the spread of pictures you are looking for. The percentile range buckets near the average need to be smaller to get a greater variety of images.<br /><br />It is tough to get away from Sierra and LucasArts characters because they established the genre. They were the premier publishers during the adventure game golden-age. Therefore I make no attempt to avoid using their characters when making my list and justifications.<br /><br />1 Vohaul (the biggest bad guy from any of Sierra's series)<br />2 LeChuck (the biggest bad guy from any of LucasArt's series)<br />3 Purple or Green Tentacle (being a tentacle is pretty bad)<br />4 Larry Laffer (being a depraved loser just trying to score may be funny, but it isn't all that great)<br />5 Roger Wilco (he's a janitor ... a step up from depraved loser)<br />6 Guybrush Threepwood (a wannabe pirate .. at least he's not cleaning toilets between adventures)<br />7 Tex Murphy (hard(ly)-working private eye who has saved the world a few times)<br />8 Laura Bow (a strong resourceful, intelligent, and respected adventure woman)<br />9 The Hero (the great hero, stopped demon invasions, defeated cthullu-like monsters from the beyond)<br />10 King Graham (the guy who started it all)<br />11 AFGNCAAP (that's you, the player, the ultimate adventure gamer, who has beaten countless obstacles and adversaries to save the day, time after time, game after game)Mookihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08418365259893960483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-76688360496000170092012-07-13T23:41:58.100+10:002012-07-13T23:41:58.100+10:00Well, we're close to figuring this out. How ab...Well, we're close to figuring this out. How about this for a solution?<br /><br />Since Dave is the one that actually has to draw these characters, I vote we let him choose which ones he wants to draw. We can then figure out how to sort them from there (it will probably be obvious).<br /><br />April Ryan<br />Guybrush Threepwood<br />Indiana Jones<br />King Graham<br />Larry Laffer<br />Laura Bow<br />LeChuck<br />Malcolm<br />Manny Calavera<br />Purple Tentacle<br />Roger Wilco<br />Sam and Max<br />Simon the Sorcerer<br />Tex Murphy<br />VohaulThe Tricksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-75322929924621446532012-07-13T23:34:14.248+10:002012-07-13T23:34:14.248+10:00If you've played Dreamfall (The Longest Journe...If you've played Dreamfall (The Longest Journey's sequel), I'm pretty certain you'd be able to recognise Zoe Castillo. ;)The Tricksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-6680778268558273092012-07-13T23:24:06.109+10:002012-07-13T23:24:06.109+10:00Canageek:
I assume you are using Excel (it's ...Canageek:<br /><br />I assume you are using Excel (it's the only one I've ever really used so I can't comment on other spreadsheet input methods).<br /><br />You have a column of data in column "A":<br /><br />1<br />2<br />3<br />1<br />5<br />2<br /><br />You calculate the running average by putting the following equation in column "B"<br /><br />=average(A$1:A#)<br /><br />Where # equals the row number the equation is in.<br /><br />Doing this provides the following r^2 values for each PISSED category (including outliers):<br /><br />P = 0.87<br />I = 0.15<br />S = 0.75<br />S = 0.54<br />E = 0.33<br />D = 0.16Mookihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08418365259893960483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-72239064227817150812012-07-13T23:16:10.868+10:002012-07-13T23:16:10.868+10:00Rotgrub's ranges do not provide as much divers...Rotgrub's ranges do not provide as much diversification in pictures for rated games at this time as the percentile buckets I recommended do. This is dispite the fact that I recommende even fewer brackets. Rotgrub's breakdown would give the following:<br /><br />Below 30 (3)<br />31-36 (1)<br />37-43 (1)<br />44-50 (6)<br />51-57 (8)<br />58-64 (1)<br />65-71 (0)<br />72-78 (0)<br />79-85 (0)<br />86 and above (0)<br /><br />The reason Rotgrub's percentile buckets are not ideal is that each bucket is the same size. In order to obtain a greater spread of images you will need to make the buckets near the average score smaller. <br /><br />On the other hand, it is everyone's expectation that adventure games yet to come will pull the averages scores up due to improvements in graphics and sound. See a previous comment of mine on the current trends in each category. The games at this time are NOT improving. The average PISSED rating over time is actually decreasing. A linear fit to the games give a slope of -0.218. This is due to the outliers I talk about earlier. If those are removed the negative slope is insignificant (-0.027 .. well within the margin of error). <br /><br />At this time, the next 6 games would need to achieve a score of 60 (very nearly the max so far) to bring the average up to 50. It would take the next 29 games being rated 60 to raise the average to 55!<br /><br />There are some great games coming in the future ... but not that many. The quality of adventure games has not improved THAT much.<br /><br />Given the unliklieness of the above, I think the focus should be on smaller buckets near the current average to provide a greater variety of images displayed.Mookihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08418365259893960483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-34757671762966500062012-07-13T22:00:08.435+10:002012-07-13T22:00:08.435+10:00I thought about both Murray and Elaine, but with t...I thought about both Murray and Elaine, but with the limit of ten slots, I couldn't justify using three or four of them just for Monkey Island.<br /><br />Considering the evil->good scale, I might have done this instead:<br />Purple Tentacle (Yes, more evil than LeChuck, just face it)<br />LeChuck<br />Malcolm<br />Sam&Max (thanks to Max they ended up just shy of neutral)<br />Roger Wilco<br />Simon the Sorcerer<br />April Ryan<br />Manny Calavera<br />Tex Murphy<br />Indiana Jones<br /><br />That drops out both Guybrush and Laura Bow though. Laura Bow I can do without, but it just seems empty without Guybrush. If I HAD to have Guybrush in, I'd put him at 5/6, either swapping out Roger Wilco or Simon, but that could drop Sierra totally off the list. :(Lars-Erikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17853818944579785754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-78113276050581409802012-07-13T21:34:40.058+10:002012-07-13T21:34:40.058+10:00Oh, and where's Larry?
As Lars-Erik says, cri...Oh, and where's Larry?<br /><br />As Lars-Erik says, criteria is the main issue here. Are these ordered in terms of villainy, competence, popularity...? Imagine if there was a brief text illustrating the evil-good scale. LeChuck would be reserved for the lower tier: "Uber-Villain". Henchmen would follow, like Murray the talking skull -- it could be next as "Powerful Demonic Force". A mid-range option could be "Brave janitor" (Wilco). As much as I want Guybrush to be at the top, he'd be cool for an "Adventurer wanna-be". While the cream of the crop would be represented by Indy and "Adventure is my name".Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04860506019349657883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-76009857563441329262012-07-13T21:20:54.956+10:002012-07-13T21:20:54.956+10:00Uh, I tried to set up my own list, and it's al...Uh, I tried to set up my own list, and it's almost impossible!<br /><br />LeChuck<br />Purple Tentacle<br />Malcolm<br />Roger Wilco<br />Simon the Sorcerer<br />Laura Bow<br />April Ryan<br />Tex Murphy<br />Manny Calavera<br />Guybrush Threepwood<br /><br />I think that's a fair balance between LucasArts, Sierra and Others, and it has some female representation.<br /><br />What I can't decide about is what criteria to use. I put Simon in the middle as a fairly inept anti-hero, but does that invalidate putting Guybrush at the top? Why put him there at all? Hmm...should I do evil->good, antagonist->protagonist, sort by popularity, my personal feelings towards the games, or what? Hence, a fairly jumbled together compromise of all of the criteria. :p<br /><br />Still thinking.Lars-Erikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17853818944579785754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-64885956488134980382012-07-13T21:09:11.793+10:002012-07-13T21:09:11.793+10:00Eh, the real problem is that there's so few re...Eh, the real problem is that there's so few recognizable female characters in adventure games at all. I could go for April Ryan, but swap out Kate with Elaine Marley maybe?Lars-Erikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17853818944579785754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-31807367848568588062012-07-13T20:49:00.342+10:002012-07-13T20:49:00.342+10:00The problem with Kate Walker and April Ryan is, IM...The problem with Kate Walker and April Ryan is, IMO, that their look is more "realistic", i.e. not iconic enough to be recognizable in the same way as, say, Lara Croft would be. I've played the Syberia and TLJ games, but I know I'd have trouble distinguishing either protagonist among a bunch of generic 3D characters. Do they even have a signature outfit?<br /><br />I guess if Kate was surrounded by mammoths and automatons I *could* make the connection...Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04860506019349657883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-47996341641640723112012-07-13T20:23:09.483+10:002012-07-13T20:23:09.483+10:00Gemini Rue is now on GOG for only $4.99! I haven&#...Gemini Rue is now on GOG for only $4.99! I haven't been buying new games for obvious reasons, but I've snapped it up on reputation alone.The Tricksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-81221368433934228032012-07-13T15:23:05.349+10:002012-07-13T15:23:05.349+10:00Yeah.
I think these lists are always going to be ...Yeah.<br /><br />I think these lists are always going to be Sierra/Lucasarts dominated. They're the only companies I can think of who had the same characters appear in more than one or two games.<br /><br />The main exception being characters taken from literature (Sherlock Holmes, Nancy Drew)<br /><br />Interesting that Manny Calavera appears in a lot of people's wishlists when he only appeared in one game. Just goes to show how much of an impact Grim Fandango had on people.TBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13815382857422719383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-35340700519080901792012-07-13T13:02:41.905+10:002012-07-13T13:02:41.905+10:00I wouldn't be opposed to that list. It's s...I wouldn't be opposed to that list. It's still very Sierra and LucasArts heavy, but that's not really a surprise.The Tricksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-40705847574685125162012-07-13T13:02:23.671+10:002012-07-13T13:02:23.671+10:00While i have a cartoony style, i could do the more...While i have a cartoony style, i could do the more realistic characters justice, at least in likeness :)Dave_the_Turniphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10936724545186944875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-61071685920177891202012-07-13T11:41:44.214+10:002012-07-13T11:41:44.214+10:00I really like that mix. A lot. Do we have to pick ...I really like that mix. A lot. Do we have to pick and choose ten? If so, from that list, low to high:<br /><br />Vohaul (who/what better to represent the sludge of gaming?)<br />Purple/Green Tentacle<br />Malcolm<br />LeChuck<br />Roger Wilco (the perfect symbol of mediocrity)<br />Tex Murphy<br />King Graham<br />Sam and Max<br />Manny Calaveras<br />Guybrush Threepwood (always first in my book)Evan Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18049739394359362973noreply@blogger.com