tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post8456448437507683273..comments2024-03-29T05:52:53.051+11:00Comments on The Adventurers Guild: The Year Ahead - 1992The Tricksterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comBlogger105125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-62131819944689743282016-09-22T13:44:35.072+10:002016-09-22T13:44:35.072+10:00I'd say definitely point things like this out ...I'd say definitely point things like this out though. <br /><br />You mentioning it has made me extremely likely to be Missed Classicing itTBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07010934567583163570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-64316437264315195752016-09-22T13:31:24.121+10:002016-09-22T13:31:24.121+10:00Ah, I just reread the inclusion rules and realised...Ah, I just reread the inclusion rules and realised the difference between the 10 and 20 Mobygames votes requirements (thought it was always 20). I did wonder why the Batman game was votable while the other game wasn't. Nevermind then.Laukkuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16258625692586860655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-79937442783484145262016-09-22T07:48:26.550+10:002016-09-22T07:48:26.550+10:00Unlike our counterpart the CRPGAddict, TAG isn'...Unlike our counterpart the CRPGAddict, TAG isn't really intended to be exhaustive. As Ilmari summarized above:<br /><br />"A Potential game to be played must be listed on Moby Games as part of the adventure genre (excluding interactive fiction games) and must have at least 10 votes, or it must appear on the Wikipedia Notable Graphic Adventure Games list, or it must be an adventure game in a series, later part of which would be Potential."<br /><br />This one received just 9 votes and so was shy of the required target...<br /><br />I personally have an "inclusive" bent and would like to see a few more exceptions someday, but our Missed Classic system is suitably robust that we may not need it. (You may have seen my comment recently about the future ICOM games. Those are games that aren't notable but done in the waning days of a team that previously did notable games. Should those be automatically included? Maybe or maybe not. Worthy of debate. Some other day.) <br /><br />As for 1992, we have already more games than any other year I believe so one more may not be that welcome... :)Joe Pranevichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997014242774219758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-44679594197112093452016-09-22T03:51:45.111+10:002016-09-22T03:51:45.111+10:00I just stumbled onto a video showcasing adventure ...I just stumbled onto a <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/adventuregames/comments/4lcp8i/the_history_of_graphic_adventure_games_1992/" rel="nofollow">video</a> showcasing adventure games from 1992 and noticed a game missing from the above list:<br /><br />http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/daughter-of-serpents<br /><br />It's probably too late for any chance of it being added and sponsored, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. Maybe it'll get played as a Missed Classic in the future.Laukkuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16258625692586860655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-34111168722517773612016-08-17T03:31:44.216+10:002016-08-17T03:31:44.216+10:00TBD: I've put down your name to those games.TBD: I've put down your name to those games.Ilmari Jauhiainenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01655841880034965950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-73970177513737322812016-08-16T15:34:37.641+10:002016-08-16T15:34:37.641+10:00As we still have quite a few games unaccounted for...As we still have quite a few games unaccounted for, I'd like to put my hand up for a few more:<br /><br />Leather Goddesses of Phobos II, to give me an excuse to Missed Classic the original<br />Amazon: Guardians of Eden, to see how Access have evolved since Martian MemorandumTBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07010934567583163570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-30244336184112772912016-04-17T00:10:31.464+10:002016-04-17T00:10:31.464+10:00Good point. Something to keep in mind as, though t...Good point. Something to keep in mind as, though there are lots of CAPs out there, they are becoming more concentrated on the reviewers.<br /><br />I do think we've got it fairly right at the moment though. The costs of disregarded and borderline games are the same as they have been, and there's always the option of pooling points.<br /><br />And now that we've all spent a bunch of our points, we all have over a year to earn CAPs before we get another chance to spend them in bulk.TBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13815382857422719383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-35169567086680609122016-04-16T10:32:15.309+10:002016-04-16T10:32:15.309+10:00Sorry I'm late to the party. I'd like it i...Sorry I'm late to the party. I'd like it if we could keep CAPS cheap enough that people who don't review games can still afford things from time to time. Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-45929193924274657792016-03-26T01:17:57.227+11:002016-03-26T01:17:57.227+11:00Late to the party, but...
Reiko. Yeah, I think 10...Late to the party, but...<br /><br />Reiko. Yeah, I think 10 CAPs has been the standard 'playing along' prize but it's occasionally been more. I agree that 20 CAPs is a more suitable prize for that as a standard and think we should do that from now on.<br /><br />I also agree that there's no point worrying too much if we have CAP hoarders (I've been one myself, and it's not because I'm saving up for a big CAP purchase, but I just couldn't be arsed doing anything with them) I'll happily admit I'm wrong when someone saves enough CAPs to buy us out and fill the site with ads for weight loss, gambling and porn.<br /><br />From my point of view the main point of CAPs is just a fun little recognition for writing something somewhat interesting to the reviewer or winning a competition. The total amount of CAPs I have and the ability to spend them are of much less interest to me personally.<br /><br />I'm happy if people find fun reasons to spend CAPs though so keep the ideas coming if anyone has any...TBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13815382857422719383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-46479398518917838752016-03-25T06:03:47.773+11:002016-03-25T06:03:47.773+11:00Reiko: Not at the moment, as far as I know. I gues...Reiko: Not at the moment, as far as I know. I guess Trickster won't do it quite often, since he has to do the transfer manually.Ilmari Jauhiainenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01655841880034965950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-84200746088279310082016-03-25T06:00:11.827+11:002016-03-25T06:00:11.827+11:00I wouldn't be too worried about CAPs lying aro...I wouldn't be too worried about CAPs lying around in readers' "bank account". Some people won't use them ever, others are waiting to save them for some future game etc.<br /><br />As for having alternative ways to spend CAPs, if viable options are invented, the admin are happy enough to do the dirty number work. As for using them for Missed Classics and other extra features, the main problem I see with that is the possibility that the extra features would then start to compete with the main game line for resources - we would have to give them slots in the publication schedules more regularly, we would actually have to have someone appointed to playing them, instead of people playing the games out of personal interest etc.<br /><br />It might work in a somewhat limited fashion - we might have a limited number of assigned Missed Classic slots per gaming year (two or three?), which people could fill with their choices, if they could gather enough CAPs (1000 CAPs for one game?) - these assigned Missed Classics could be sold at regular intervals (always, when a fourth of the games of the gaming year have been played, for instance). Beyond those assigned Missed Classics, we could then also still publish freely chosen Missed Classics and other extra features (but somewhat less, since these assigned Missed Classics would eat the publishing slots). Or something like that (I am open for suggestions).<br /><br />Then again, like Joe and Aperama said, we need not be overtly concerned with the economy (it's not like we could create any real crisis with our made-up money).Ilmari Jauhiainenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01655841880034965950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-78249818587674040412016-03-25T05:46:14.609+11:002016-03-25T05:46:14.609+11:00Is Trickster still allowing CAP dumps to his site?...Is Trickster still allowing CAP dumps to his site? I thought it was a one-time thing when the site launched. I wasn't taking into account any later siphoning of CAPs.Reikohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07326356159794723662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-1525023724633857682016-03-24T16:56:31.777+11:002016-03-24T16:56:31.777+11:00Yeah, Reiko totally deserves some CAPs for that an...Yeah, Reiko totally deserves some CAPs for that analysis... :)<br /><br />I'd not be too worried about the 'economy'. We always have the Trickster CAP dump every now and then to his new currency (seriously, how many people can say they've created -two- currencies) - and when it really comes down to it it's a gimmick. A fun one, but still a gimmick. We have the actual content at the core of the site to keep it vibrant, no?Aperamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13669724908141286435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-17915823947198180552016-03-24T12:33:14.221+11:002016-03-24T12:33:14.221+11:00This is a good analysis! But also quite a lot of w...This is a good analysis! But also quite a lot of worry about our little fake economy. It's tough to see how we could improve this, plus I'm not sure that funding all the games is a BAD thing. But it does make the gamification of the site a bit less. I would be up to discussing how to improve it.<br /><br />Unlike with Trickster, I'm not sure that any of us reviewers have enough of a personal reputation that people would want to put up CAPs to have us play games. I would be willing though to take requests if people wanted to put up CAPs for them as a way to provide more things for people to spend on. (But I have my hands full, too.)<br /><br />Joe Pranevichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997014242774219758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-87576536167922071672016-03-24T12:16:29.423+11:002016-03-24T12:16:29.423+11:00Here's another bit of analysis. Even after fun...Here's another bit of analysis. Even after funding all the games for this year, there are over 10,000 CAPs already earned and not yet spent. The 23 people with over 100 CAPs left total over 8500 CAPs. Since the total CAP cost for this year's games was only 3750, that means that we'd theoretically be able to fund all the games for next year even if nobody earned any more CAPs between now and then.Reikohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07326356159794723662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-54970017815477935072016-03-24T10:49:22.516+11:002016-03-24T10:49:22.516+11:00I think I covered how to do the regular magic squa...I think I covered how to do the regular magic square in the first Dr. Brain post.Reikohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07326356159794723662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-39432247147511610542016-03-24T10:43:42.843+11:002016-03-24T10:43:42.843+11:00I think I'd seen 10 CAPs for playing along rec...I think I'd seen 10 CAPs for playing along recently. But playing along should be worth more than guessing the score, I think, since it requires a lot more time.<br /><br />Making Borderline games cost 100 also makes the cost more consistent in another way: each "level" then costs 100. The jump from 200 to 500 is a lot more than 100 to 200, but maybe that's intentional.<br /><br />Still think some Missed Classics or other special features could be bought with CAPs. I know some are kind of personal projects now (Joe), but maybe there are others.Reikohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07326356159794723662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-9217292450845894562016-03-24T06:38:06.527+11:002016-03-24T06:38:06.527+11:00Oh, I didn't say they are insignificant source...Oh, I didn't say they are insignificant source of CAPs, but more like chaotic or unpredictable.<br /><br />But let's get down to basics. Readers do want to award people for blogging about the games and it makes sense for bloggers to encourage discussion by awarding good comments - that's why we have CAPs as kind of prestige points (the more you have them, the more you are taking part in the TAG community).<br /><br />And it makes sense to use CAPs to affect what games are to be played. It makes a good compromise between having strict criteria what to play and trying to play every adventure game ever made - and it helps to get people involved with TAG.<br /><br />I think there's nothing wrong with the principles, but what we can do is to tweak some details. Firstly, we should establish that at least the regular awards and prices seem fair.<br /><br />Regular Awards: 20 CAPs for guessing the score, at most 25 CAPs for playing along, 50 CAPs for Missed Classic, 100 CAPs for a regular game. I'd say these seem pretty reasonable.<br /><br />Prices now: 50 CAPs for Borderline, 200 CAPs for Disregarded, 500 CAPs for a "Panthro's Law" -game. Like I said, Borderlines could be raised to 100 CAPs - playing a game is worth adding a game. Should the other two be also higher or do they seem fair as they now are?<br /><br />After the prices are set, the best thing to do is to give people things to do with the CAPs. Easiest thing is to add more possibilities to add games to the playing list, just with very high CAP prices (what Panthro's Law is essentially all about).<br /><br />Of course, we may have to tinker a bit about the best prices for the more costly games and about the amount of Panthro's Law -games, but I do believe it's possible to get quite near to a satisfying balance point here.Ilmari Jauhiainenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01655841880034965950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-582716805750339162016-03-24T01:23:04.805+11:002016-03-24T01:23:04.805+11:00All the miscellaneous CAPs could add up to quite a...All the miscellaneous CAPs could add up to quite a lot, actually, especially when you consider you're giving CAPs for Missed Classics too. I looked at the last five Final Ratings and, not even counting points associated with Missed Classics or the 100 given to the reviewer, the totals were between 40 and 182 per game, with an average of 97. Now the 182 may be skewing that a bit high, but it's very likely that each game will generate between 50 and 100 extra points, on average. Plus Missed Classics! That's not a negligible influence on the system.Reikohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07326356159794723662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-61961846821050094312016-03-23T23:48:04.459+11:002016-03-23T23:48:04.459+11:00I wasn't so much forgetting as ignoring them, ...I wasn't so much forgetting as ignoring them, since we cannot really determine beforehand how much of those people will earn during one gaming year. If we just have a steady source of "Panthro's Law" -games, we will have all the means necessary for regulating the "cash flow" of the blog.<br /><br />The main problem with "Panthro's law", I think, is not so much finding games, but more deciding which to choose. Remember that we don't have to find quite many of them, since they are meant to be very costly. I just looked at MobyGames for Dos/Windows graphical adventure games of 1993 and found quite quickly five games that didn't fit the criteria of a Potential game - and I didn't even look through the whole list. If that isn't sufficient, we can always extend the search to interactive fiction, action-adventure or even those smutty Japanese visual novels (well, perhaps we shouldn't go THAT far).Ilmari Jauhiainenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01655841880034965950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-40468680253411716852016-03-23T23:03:44.861+11:002016-03-23T23:03:44.861+11:00You forget all the CAPs that we earn for commentin...You forget all the CAPs that we earn for commenting, playing alongside, and similar. It's not a huge amount, but they'll certainly add up.<br /><br />And while "Panthro's Law" games might take a good chunk off, that does require us actually finding enough of those that are appropriate.Andy_Panthrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231815646876343380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-50142829692435284912016-03-23T16:35:45.206+11:002016-03-23T16:35:45.206+11:00Looking at the current status of 1993, there are 1...Looking at the current status of 1993, there are 19 Accepted games, 13 Borderline and 5 Disregarded. If the Borderlines would cost 100 CAPs (being effectively worth 0 in the whole economy), the total amount of CAPs generated would be 1900 – 500 = 1400. Add to that three Panthro’s Law –games, and we’ll have surplus of 200; add four, and we’ll be able to cancel 200 CAPs. Seems pretty effective.Ilmari Jauhiainenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01655841880034965950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-66009104902617800902016-03-23T16:12:53.846+11:002016-03-23T16:12:53.846+11:00I did a quick calculation, balancing out the CAPs ...I did a quick calculation, balancing out the CAPs paid for the games and the CAPs that will be eventually created for playing the games. Surprisingly, there's only a surplus of 150 CAPs, which seems quite acceptable. This is mostly due to Panthro's Law -games, which effectively cancelled 800 CAPs from the system. We could use that as kind of a regulation system, adding up more of those to the market, if the TAG economy appears to go overboard.Ilmari Jauhiainenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01655841880034965950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-31813400384296087722016-03-23T15:45:21.310+11:002016-03-23T15:45:21.310+11:00That's right. Plus I've never understood t...That's right. Plus I've never understood the rule of requiring 100 for a borderline game from a group effort if one person can fund it for 50. I guess if more than two people want to share the cost (if none of them even have 50, for instance), it might make sense. Still, why not just make borderline games cost 100 regardless of whether it's split or not? That would be a good start. Probably any changes would only take effect starting with 1993 games at this point, but this is as good a time as any to consider whether the system needs any tweaks.Reikohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07326356159794723662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-43784410983264097732016-03-23T15:29:02.991+11:002016-03-23T15:29:02.991+11:00Or do as the real world does when inflation occurs...Or do as the real world does when inflation occurs, that is, make prices higher? Borderline-games seem quite cheap - you can essentially buy two games with the salary of playing one game.Ilmari Jauhiainenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01655841880034965950noreply@blogger.com