tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post793496381487439177..comments2024-03-29T23:24:51.650+11:00Comments on The Adventurers Guild: Game 52: King's Quest V – An owl in need is an owl indeedThe Tricksterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-1228233871088195332015-04-20T10:25:28.767+10:002015-04-20T10:25:28.767+10:00Caption contest winner!Caption contest winner!TBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07010934567583163570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-57755369268583067492015-04-16T12:20:45.971+10:002015-04-16T12:20:45.971+10:00Geez! I give up! Being in Singapore sucks to help ...Geez! I give up! Being in Singapore sucks to help freaking mice-swallowing night birds! <br /><br />I found the Hawk And Owl Trust that allowed donations from Singapore but accepts payment through Paypal only but...<br /><br />"We're sorry, but we can't send your payment right now.<br /><br />Return to merchant and try a different payment method<br />We are not able to process your payment using your PayPal account at this time. Please return to the merchant's website and try using a different payment method (if available)."<br /><br />WTF?! I'm trying to give you guys MONEY, you bird-helping people!Kenny McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01553499727945099493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-83688089708957683682015-04-12T01:35:51.353+10:002015-04-12T01:35:51.353+10:00Good links, there!
In general, assuming we sort o...Good links, there!<br /><br />In general, assuming we sort of set KQ1 and 2 as "still getting the hang of this" games, KQ5 is probably the weakest in these story terms, or a throwback to those first games. As has been pointed out, the puzzles are basically all isolated little things: encounter the puzzle, figure out the needed item, move on and forget about it. In a way, KQ1 and 2 were had a little more structure, since you are aware of three macro-tasks you're working towards (a device borrowed in, e.g. the first stretch of the first Monkey Island). KQ5 punts that but does try to give more of a sense of epic-ness just through graphics and environments and the sense that you're arriving at new stages of the game. While I'm definitely critical of the design now, I have to remember how I experienced this at the end of 1990/beginning of 1991 - it was pretty exciting!<br /><br />Still, I much prefer III, IV and VI. The latter has its own flaws, which of course we'll get to in due time, but there are various devices throughout the game that keep the "big story" present, as in IV, where you encounter Lolotte and Genesta partway through, not just for the big finish. And again, there's the "three macro-tasks" gimmick. III derives its pacing more organically from the story actually unfolding: breaking free of Manannan, seeing the oracle, stowing away on the pirate's ship... you understand why you/Gwydion would be taking on each of these things, even if some of the individual puzzles you just do because you figure out that you <i>can</i>. Anyway, one wishes they'd returned to that kind of structure more. I think Longbow does a pretty nice job of all this, but it's been a long time...doctorcasinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14185814652737703042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-84616557536407850002015-04-11T17:27:43.271+10:002015-04-11T17:27:43.271+10:00I should also speak a few words about how linear e...I should also speak a few words about how linear episodic plots can be poor storytelling. A good story has a strong central mechanic, The Main Conflict, which drives the story. Events and character motivations should revolve around that conflict, with characters trying to resolve it into different "directions", and various twists happening that bring meaningful new material and pull the story onto new conditions. Basically all or most story elements should be somehow relevant to the bigger picture. When writing a synopsis, it should not read "X happens, then Y happens, then Z happens" but something like "X happens, but Y happens, therefore Z happens".<br /><br />Especially in KQ5 the episodes are all separate conflicts in themselves and don't tie the entire thing together into any kind of coherent meaningful whole - 90% of the game is doing various fetch quests and encountering dangerous situations that are quickly resolved and forgotten, and Mordack doesn't become relevant again until you finally arrive to his island. The end result is a jumbled mess, a story that is completely uninteresting and unmemorable.<br /><br />Here are some rather good articles about the subject:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.adventuregamers.com/articles/view/17875" rel="nofollow">http://www.adventuregamers.com/articles/view/17875</a><br /><a href="http://nathanbweller.com/creators-of-south-park-storytelling-advice-but-therefore-rule/" rel="nofollow">http://nathanbweller.com/creators-of-south-park-storytelling-advice-but-therefore-rule/</a><br /><br />From a quick search I couldn't find a directly relevant article from it, but <a href="http://mysterymanonfilm.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">here is an excellent blog</a> nonetheless about storytelling mechanics in general in film.Laukkuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16258625692586860655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-76956468279021220842015-04-11T04:34:14.452+10:002015-04-11T04:34:14.452+10:00This is an interesting discussion, although I'...This is an interesting discussion, although I'd point out that first and fourth King's Quests are played for the whole time in the same open grid, except for some intermediate bits, like Leprechaun land in KQ1 and Lolotte's castle in KQ4. But yeah, the "open world" seems to have been definitive for the series.<br /><br />Comparing with other quests, Space Quest has almost always been rather linear, especially in the early games: you solve one area, move to next and next and next... There's a clear "opening section" in 1 and 3, as doctorcasino said (and also in 2 and 4, I might add), but in addition, a clear ending section in an "enemy base", often with some time limit and perhaps some action sequence.<br /><br />In Police Quest the world design differs from both KQ and SQ. You have a central "home base" (the police station), from which you take missions to various locations (often quite small, one or two rooms). All of them have also an end sequence involving a final mission to the enemy base.<br /><br />Larry-games have then had the most varied world structure, going from strict linearity of Larry 2 to an open grid of Larry 6.Ilmari Jauhiainenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01655841880034965950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-80195316496108353322015-04-11T03:38:43.172+10:002015-04-11T03:38:43.172+10:00Good stuff, doctorcasino. I wish we had more discu...Good stuff, doctorcasino. I wish we had more discussions like this about subtle pacing and design elements. I'd like to add that escaping the initial grid in KQ5 is incredibly anticlimactic because there is zero buildup to finding the tambourine. In contrast, Monkey Island 1 has a much better structured relationship of puzzles, goals and plot advancement in the first part.<br /><br />When designing these "grid" sections it is also important to avoid the the <a href="http://www.adventuregamers.com/articles/view/17833" rel="nofollow">keyring syndrome</a> (linear A->B->C->D puzzle progression, where you have to find the beginning of the chain).Laukkuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16258625692586860655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-10844210921798314602015-04-09T16:20:22.057+10:002015-04-09T16:20:22.057+10:00I feel for you - dead-ends are nobody's friend...I feel for you - dead-ends are nobody's friend.<br /><br />At least you did better than I did back in the day when I was still stuck wandering through the town and surrounds.TBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07010934567583163570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-29647269822493599112015-04-09T15:58:13.939+10:002015-04-09T15:58:13.939+10:00When counting pixels I didn't include the crys...When counting pixels I didn't include the crystal but did include the conch shell (which actually consists of four pixels and can be seen on the harpy screenshot)<br /><br />All the single pixel items glisten which makes them much easier to find than some other things (I'm thinking specifically of the tree stump drawer in the witch's hut and the outcropping on the snow cliff)TBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07010934567583163570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-24340202206276158982015-04-09T15:53:28.508+10:002015-04-09T15:53:28.508+10:00Agree. It's definitely fun despite being somet...Agree. It's definitely fun despite being sometimes unfair and annoying. <br /><br />My nethers will be looking for a break when I finally finish the game but I've really loved getting back to not resorting to walkthroughs.TBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07010934567583163570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-2574092087219510972015-04-09T15:50:54.952+10:002015-04-09T15:50:54.952+10:00Preferring to save an Australian Owl, I've don...Preferring to save an Australian Owl, I've donated to this one...<br /><br />http://www.conservationvolunteers.com.au/support-us/wild-futures/powerful-owlTBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07010934567583163570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-38954714877051688782015-04-09T12:42:49.644+10:002015-04-09T12:42:49.644+10:00Yes, I think this is part of the psychology... bet...Yes, I think this is part of the psychology... better to be wandering around, putting two and two together, and resolving <i>some</i> puzzles. The downside is you might be dead-ending yourself while you do it!<br /><br />A few did have proper "trial" areas, I'd say - the castle in Conquests of Camelot, or the spaceships in Space Quests I and III, off the top of my head. I have to say that much as I love the sense of impending excitement and "getting somewhere" of having the later new screens, I think I prefer the ones where the general map is laid out from the get-go, but access to secondary screens scattered all over the place is related to particular puzzles (I wouldn't call them "side-quests," but they have that feeling)... drip-feeds that excitement of seeing new screens. All the Sierra games had that to varying degrees, but I think QFG1 and KQ4 probably have the best balance.doctorcasinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14185814652737703042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-60775396476328543912015-04-09T12:33:49.531+10:002015-04-09T12:33:49.531+10:00Interesting.
Another reason for this could be tha...Interesting.<br /><br />Another reason for this could be that before the internet days a player could be stuck on an early puzzle forever. If you were stuck in a linear starting game and couldn't progress past the third screen you'd only see 3 screens worth of art and see one or two puzzles. You might feel a bit ripped off and be less likely to buy their next adventure game.TBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07010934567583163570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-32699359229546129392015-04-09T11:19:24.225+10:002015-04-09T11:19:24.225+10:00There was a pattern in several of the King's Q...There was a pattern in several of the King's Quests, and maybe some of the other series, to start out with an open-ended "grid" section that gives way to a much more constrained series of screens to which you don't return for the latter half of the game. KQIII is probably the most similar in this regard, but II has a less-developed version of it... and even finishes with a sequence along a beach running north-to-south, with mountains in the west! I feel like most of the other quest games worked rather differently, with a series of detached and mostly discrete episodes or locations (the islands in KQVI, the visitable locations in the Conquests games).<br /><br />From a present-day standpoint, this seems a bit surprising; one would sort of expect a more linear "tutorial" section near the beginning, to make sure you understand the mechanics and what kind of puzzles you'll be dealing with. But presumably there were reasons for this approach; it definitely suggests the game is really big and interesting, so that from the moment you start playing you have the sense of a grand adventure and getting your money's worth. It also has a kind of psychological payoff: when you <i>finally</i> get to leave the grid you've been traipsing around in for ages (and gradually exhausting of unsolved puzzles), you <i>know</i> the story must be getting somewhere. It's exciting! The pirate ship in KQIII and the journey to Raseir are good examples of this.<br /><br />If memory serves, the LucasArts games would sometimes use these "plot point" moments as a chance to purge your inventory of no-longer-useful things.doctorcasinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14185814652737703042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-90580273505996563772015-04-09T02:26:56.479+10:002015-04-09T02:26:56.479+10:00"Fun" fact: you can eat the pie to avoid..."Fun" fact: you can eat the pie to avoid starvation. As you can probably guess, this deadends you. IIRC, the hungry eagle eats the entirety of the lamb leg, so you might not even realize where you messed up. (Yes, this happened to me back in the day)Fryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07805219432946673379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-57193818630968080212015-04-09T02:23:32.782+10:002015-04-09T02:23:32.782+10:00Death 26: Doduo uses Peck! It's super effectiv...Death 26: Doduo uses Peck! It's super effective!<br /><br />Appreciate the Futurama reference.<br /><br />Pixels found so far: 4 or 5<br />(silver coin, gold coin, locket, fish hook; maybe the crystal, I can't remember how obvious this one was)Fryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07805219432946673379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-53451340472749671582015-04-08T19:11:37.425+10:002015-04-08T19:11:37.425+10:00How convenient that there just happened to be a bo...How convenient that there just happened to be a boat lying around, allowing Graham to cross that big salty puddle of Nectar of the Gods, a.k.a. dihydrogen monoxide.Laukkuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16258625692586860655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-36212070882786961312015-04-08T17:49:11.664+10:002015-04-08T17:49:11.664+10:00I don't recall if anyone has mentioned these, ...I don't recall if anyone has mentioned these, but I found a map of the world of King's Quests, taken from the official King's Quest Companion:<br /><br />http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/2nd_Edition_Maps?file=Worldmap2ndedition.jpg<br /><br />Interestingly, Daventry and Serenia (from King's Quest 5) exist in the same continent. Similarly, lands of King's Quest 3 and 4 are actually East and West sides of the same continent (or are these islands?).<br /><br />Here are more detailed maps of Daventry and Serenia:<br /><br />http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/2nd_Edition_Maps?file=Land-daventry.gif<br />http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/2nd_Edition_Maps?file=Land-serenia.gifIlmari Jauhiainenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01655841880034965950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-76998062011284170652015-04-08T16:38:49.380+10:002015-04-08T16:38:49.380+10:00Caption: "Sic 'em, boy!"
Yeah, I st...Caption: "Sic 'em, boy!"<br /><br />Yeah, I still say that this game is quite simply not very fair. Even for a game of its era (and as such one that relishes in 'gameplay extensions') expecting pixel-scans on every screen is just not kosher to me. At least it manages to be fun while kicking you in the nethers, though.Aperamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13669724908141286435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-86519926269413599392015-04-08T14:06:28.666+10:002015-04-08T14:06:28.666+10:00So far, I see the desert and the hole-in-the-boat ...So far, I see the desert and the hole-in-the-boat puzzle are strangely reminiscent of "Wizard and the Princess". Are there more references?<br /><br />Caption contest:<br /><br />"Straddle the line in discord and rhyme: I'm on the hunt, I'm after you."<br />Joe Pranevichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997014242774219758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-52210366680767573142015-04-08T14:02:22.543+10:002015-04-08T14:02:22.543+10:00Kenny, you can contribute to any Owl Sanctuary you...Kenny, you can contribute to any Owl Sanctuary you like! I just picked that one at random for my own donation. As long as you are helping owls, it doesn't matter where you do it!<br /><br />(Just so long as they have owls. An owl sanctuary in Antarctica probably wouldn't cut it, unless there are polar owls that I do not know about.) Joe Pranevichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997014242774219758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-22016236639531303322015-04-08T13:34:32.060+10:002015-04-08T13:34:32.060+10:00Speaking of Cedric's voice, when he's firs...Speaking of Cedric's voice, when he's first cured in the hermit cutscene his voice sounds totally different. I think either the harpy claws or the poultice affected his vocal cords.TBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07010934567583163570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-91302280001311613822015-04-08T13:09:22.718+10:002015-04-08T13:09:22.718+10:00Also our friend Richard Aronson was the voice of C...Also our friend Richard Aronson was the voice of Cedric. (He's a bass in real life, had to use falsetto for all of Cedric's lines.) Richard was the project leader for Quest of the Longbow and Quest for Camelot, did programming work on Quest for Glory 1 VGA, and created The Ruins of Cawdor game on INN (the ImagiNation Network) before moving on to other companies.Corey Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16772474266362396768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-57436457732959927672015-04-08T12:12:47.959+10:002015-04-08T12:12:47.959+10:00Yeah. The beach was 3 screens with 2 puzzles, the ...Yeah. The beach was 3 screens with 2 puzzles, the island was 3 screens and only one puzzle, the ice path was altogether about 8 screens with about 5 puzzles - and most of the ice path puzzles simply involved sensibly using items you found by solving puzzles in the earlier sections.<br /><br />Unless I missed something the ability to navigate the ocean rather than automatically sailing to the island only served the purpose of taking more time<br /><br />I really enjoyed the change of pace with linearity after the constant backtracking that I did previously whenever I was stuck. Much easier to find items you may have missed when you only have a few screens you can check out - though the constant fear of being in a dead-end detracts from that relaxation a bit.TBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07010934567583163570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-13662110115762622832015-04-08T09:50:09.699+10:002015-04-08T09:50:09.699+10:00Well, I'll be... Just because I'm not livi...Well, I'll be... Just because I'm not living in the States, I can't contribute to the cause? Does my credit card disagree with them owls? I can't tell since they all look eternally surprised.Kenny McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01553499727945099493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-2547049427181052382015-04-08T09:42:45.493+10:002015-04-08T09:42:45.493+10:00CAption contest: "Hooray!"CAption contest: "Hooray!"Kenny McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01553499727945099493noreply@blogger.com