tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post2423678528278123172..comments2024-03-29T05:52:53.051+11:00Comments on The Adventurers Guild: Game 34: The Colonel's Bequest - Under the InfluenceThe Tricksterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-48567574317054219582013-08-29T03:44:57.026+10:002013-08-29T03:44:57.026+10:00I'm not that familiar with adventure games, so...I'm not that familiar with adventure games, so take that statement with more tongue in cheek.Zenic Reveriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16441583549326102945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-62311227322004043232013-08-28T20:01:05.348+10:002013-08-28T20:01:05.348+10:00That bastard probably lives in an adventure game.That bastard probably lives in an adventure game.Kenny McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01553499727945099493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-74176552619811398552013-08-28T19:51:00.797+10:002013-08-28T19:51:00.797+10:00Dark Fall 1 & 2 have been re-released on GOG. ...Dark Fall 1 & 2 have been re-released on GOG. I assume they used to be there but were removed for some reason or another. I started Dark Fall 1 one day and remember a very good atmosphere, but struggling to achieve much. I look forward to having another go.The Tricksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-15780414775337049192013-08-28T15:33:55.176+10:002013-08-28T15:33:55.176+10:00And a single paper clip.And a single paper clip.Lars-Erikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17853818944579785754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-12436873874064869632013-08-28T15:30:05.268+10:002013-08-28T15:30:05.268+10:00I think the Emperor would have conquered the galax...I think the Emperor would have conquered the galaxy a lot earlier simply by doing this:<br /><br />1) Land an armada of Storm Troopers on the planet they want to take over.<br />2) Have them march to a place where the troopers will be in plain sight of the general populace and the rulers of the planet.<br />3) Have all the Troopers point their rifles at their own face.<br />4) Order the 1st line of troopers to fire.<br />5) Threaten the planet that the Empire will keep doing that until they run out of Troopers to die or surrender their planet to save the poor bastards.Kenny McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01553499727945099493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-20214091581185227632013-08-28T15:29:29.566+10:002013-08-28T15:29:29.566+10:00Well, even though you can't avoid becoming a J...Well, even though you can't avoid becoming a Jedi in KotOR, you can just decide not to play like one. It is plenty possible to play the game as for instance a soldier, and avoid both using a lightsaber and Force powers.<br /><br />In the Jedi Knight series though, there are a number of places you have to use Force powers to proceed.Lars-Erikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17853818944579785754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-12539925738319633342013-08-28T15:21:18.818+10:002013-08-28T15:21:18.818+10:00Kenny: Because they worked out the cost of equippi...Kenny: Because they worked out the cost of equipping them better and have decided they found the right point between 'fights better each' and 'clone/conscript another guy'. Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-40297359020429671882013-08-28T15:19:13.048+10:002013-08-28T15:19:13.048+10:00Also Zenic: What about Limbo of the Lost? Also Zenic: What about Limbo of the Lost? Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-34477481344365266122013-08-28T15:11:42.261+10:002013-08-28T15:11:42.261+10:00Ilmari: Also there is the fact I dropped one year ...Ilmari: Also there is the fact I dropped one year to make them fit into a straight line; you get a much smaller slope if you include 1984. <br /><br />I'd also guess that games are getting longer because computers are getting better. There is a point at which computer limitations won't restrict adventure games, and I don't think that is very far away. I'd guess that as soon as the CD-ROM comes out.<br /><br />Then, game makers will pick a time based on what they think consumers want, and stick with it. Currently most game designers apparently aim for 20 hours, as that is what fans claim they want. HOWEVER, recent data indicates that most people don't finish games this long. You know those 'HEY, you started the game' achievements everyone makes fun of on Steam and consoles? Microsoft and most other people ban you from collecting data on players, however, the number of people who have an achievement is listed publicly. Put one at the start of the game, the end , and so on, and you can see how many people beat the game and stop playing at various points. (I just heard this in a forum, but it makes so much sense I have a hard time believing it isn't true). <br /><br />Anyway, so while 20 hours was standard for a long time, apparently it is dropping as most people don't finish 20 hour games, so why not go for 10-15? I know I enjoy games I can finish in a couple of days more. The games I've actually beaten as of late (Bulletstorm, Space Marine, Mass Effect 1 and 2) aren't actually that long; ME1 is pretty long, but only because I explored every planet in the game, and finished every single side mission. I think I got every codex entry, or close to it. <br /><br />I mean, I've put more hours into Skyrim, Nethack, Civ IV, Master of Orion 2, possibly Dwarf Fortress each then all of those combined, but I never *finished* any of them, unless you count beating a stanard game of MOO2 or Civ as 'beating' it. <br /><br />Whereas, I've put lots of time into Assassin's Creed II and not finished it, as it was getting a bit boring (And I wanted to get as much Mass Effect done before moving to BC as I could, as I don't have a computer that can run it, and I'd lose my save files). Infamous I abandoned due to difficulty, but honestly, I was hoping it would end soon even before that. <br /><br />Anyway, Ars Technica had a couple of articles on this: <br /><br />http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/04/the-incredible-shrinking-game-the-truth-of-game-length-in-the-modern-industry/<br /><br />http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/08/more-in-the-bottle-the-dubious-value-of-game-length/Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-25285019639700522092013-08-28T14:56:38.449+10:002013-08-28T14:56:38.449+10:00Good point, my memories of Jedi Knight have failed...Good point, my memories of Jedi Knight have failed me; I lost interest in Star Wars games once you had to become a Jedi. Even Knights of the Old Republic, which is supposed to be amazing and is d20 based, kept bugging me because I want to make a guy with a blaster, but I know that I'm going to become a Jedi and should be putting feats into swords so I'm good with a lightsaber. Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-2157998639444939102013-08-28T11:25:12.969+10:002013-08-28T11:25:12.969+10:00Probably. Still glad it ain't The Scoop or Neu...Probably. Still glad it ain't The Scoop or Neuromancer would be relegated to being the 2nd longest game played.Kenny McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01553499727945099493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-89842147208877356852013-08-28T11:22:31.187+10:002013-08-28T11:22:31.187+10:00Why would a freaking Empire that spans the known g...Why would a freaking Empire that spans the known galaxy outfit their army with shitty rifles and bulky armor that could not even stop a low-grade mining droid laser?<br /><br />It's like the Emperor was just hoping for them to die early and not need to maintain them since they're goddamn clones without any insurance. Oh... wait... okay... that explains everything.Kenny McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01553499727945099493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-46903250296783577372013-08-28T11:04:58.971+10:002013-08-28T11:04:58.971+10:00If the game is in real time, it's definitely g...If the game is in real time, it's definitely gonna take that long. XD<br /><br />And some of the later games do get more archaic with their inventory puzzles to stretch their playing time, in the absence of parser technology.<br /><br />I still remember silently screaming "What the fu..." at that stupid (process of) thing(s) you had to do to get a key in The Longest Journey.<br /><br />Took me almost 6 game hours to complete that part, which is just the earlier segment of the game!Kenny McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01553499727945099493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-58017104305556299912013-08-28T03:18:12.806+10:002013-08-28T03:18:12.806+10:00I can't imagine an adventure game taking longe...I can't imagine an adventure game taking longer than 30 hours. Unless Trickster gets extremely stuck and doesn't take any hints.Zenic Reveriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16441583549326102945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-67895212627724564492013-08-27T23:02:49.384+10:002013-08-27T23:02:49.384+10:00Funny enough, the Something Awful let's play o...Funny enough, the Something Awful let's play of colonel's bequest has a funny alternate explanation of the plot related to 'that bug'. I'd recommend you read the LP after completing the game, it's fun and informative.<br />http://lparchive.org/Laura-Bow-The-Colonels-Bequest/Paulo Fariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02374231047153225371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-70981197147145030322013-08-27T20:40:37.351+10:002013-08-27T20:40:37.351+10:00I think there are some reasons for being skeptical...I think there are some reasons for being skeptical about Canageek’s conclusions:<br /><br />a) Games that Trickster has played already have clearly shorter playing time. As many of them have appeared at the first years (first three King’s Quests, first two Space Quests), and these first years contained less games, the rise of playing time from early years seems lot steeper than it should. (If we ignore Quests, in 1985 and 1986 the games have lasted about 5-6 hours, discounting Uninvited, which got 10 hours).<br /><br />b) Many of the longest played games have been more of adventure hybrids: Neuromancer 19,5, Codename Iceman 16,5, Hero’s Quest 12. (I think we could even add Captain Blood 9 hours, because even after that time, Trickster had not yet cracked the game). Clearly the non-adventure stuff slows down playing, but we should first estimate what percentage of the future games will be hybrids, before we could make any reliable predictions.<br /><br />c) I think you should also consider the development of the number of blog posts per game (here you have to discount the early games also, because on advice of some readers, Trickster added more detail in his posts). More blog posts means roughly more plot and more details to cover. For instance, both Emmanuelle and Indiana Jones were games of 10 hours, but IJ had clearly more blog posts, as is to be expected. I have a hunch that a number of blog posts per game has been increasing.<br /><br />Now, take as an example two games from the same series, Larry 2 and 3. Larry 3 has clearly more blog posts than 2, but Trickster spent considerably less time on it, suggesting that LSL 3 has more plot, but is still considerably easier. Could this be an explanation for the seeming increase of playing time in late 1980s? That is, that the plots are getting more complex and detailed? If that’s so, it might be that they are also becoming easier to solve – and considering that we are leaving parser age of adventure games, this might well be so. What this means for gaming time in the long run, difficult to say.Ilmari Jauhiainenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01655841880034965950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-83009487940617807752013-08-27T19:44:35.611+10:002013-08-27T19:44:35.611+10:00Nah, Neuromancer with 19,5 hours is still hard to ...Nah, Neuromancer with 19,5 hours is still hard to beat.Ilmari Jauhiainenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01655841880034965950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-15514126343506246582013-08-27T19:23:44.969+10:002013-08-27T19:23:44.969+10:00Oh God... this game is turning out to be the longe...Oh God... this game is turning out to be the longest you've played, Trix. Now I'm glad you never had to play "The Scoop" if you're employing the same methodology.Kenny McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01553499727945099493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-76021174735055272812013-08-27T19:22:13.337+10:002013-08-27T19:22:13.337+10:00All I can say is that I think he's right!All I can say is that I think he's right!Kenny McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01553499727945099493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-22163709316411463812013-08-27T19:20:56.914+10:002013-08-27T19:20:56.914+10:00Plus duct-tape and matches.Plus duct-tape and matches.Kenny McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01553499727945099493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-74974198605485307292013-08-27T17:26:52.013+10:002013-08-27T17:26:52.013+10:00The DL-44 was in both Jedi Knight: Mysteries of th...The DL-44 was in both Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith and Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, the heavy blaster pistol.<br /><br />Yeah, the E-11 is the weapon the stormtroopers used, and the reason for most of their notoriously bad aim.<br /><br />The DLT-19 wasn't used in the games as far as I can remember, but it did turn up both in A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. (although the movies didn't specifically mention the model I think).<br /><br />And the Imperial Heavy Repeater was in both Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy (had to look that one up).<br /><br />Turns out that Ron Gilbert (of Monkey Island, Grim Fandango, Loom etc fame) started working at LucasArts wanting to make Star Wars games. As it turned out, at the time he started there all the licenses for making Star Wars games had been sold to third parties, and so he wasn't allowed to make any. And in the vacuum that ensued, adventure game history was made.<br /><br />Let me see if I can scrounge up the article...hmmm.<br />Oh, here it is: http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/ron-gilbert-was-saved-because-he-couldnt-make-star-wars-gamesLars-Erikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17853818944579785754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-89641449509018099652013-08-27T17:11:31.733+10:002013-08-27T17:11:31.733+10:00None of those weapons were in Dark Forces, and I&#...None of those weapons were in Dark Forces, and I'm about 90% sure they weren't in Jedi Knight. The Blastech DL-44 is Han Solo's gun, though he has cut down the iron sights as it was catching on the holster and interfering with his fast draw. That I know of this isn't in any Star Wars games. <br /><br />Dammit, I got the E-11 wrong. That is the storm trooper standard weapon, and is thus in both Jedi Knight and Dark Forces. I got it mixed up with the E-Web Heavy Repeating Blaster for some reason. <br /><br />The DLT-19....That is the one I didn't know. I know it isn't in Dark Forces, was it in Jedi Knight?<br /><br />No, I don't. I know very little about LucasArts games that aren't Star Wars. Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-86522434808774876862013-08-27T16:12:23.117+10:002013-08-27T16:12:23.117+10:00All I can say is that I hope you're wrong!All I can say is that I hope you're wrong!The Tricksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01419316208187255801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-48044300603676477312013-08-27T15:38:08.341+10:002013-08-27T15:38:08.341+10:00Sometimes my inner nerd manages to escape its cage...Sometimes my inner nerd manages to escape its cage and make itself known before I can catch him again.<br /><br />But yeah, although I've scaled my SW geekism back over the last few years, I've played enough Dark Forces and Jedi Knight to be somewhat familiar with the best known weapons still (and I've read most of the EU novels as well).<br /><br />Do you know the connection between Star Wars and most of the fantastic LucasArts adventure games?Lars-Erikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17853818944579785754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3387495443226852794.post-52447250426007641992013-08-27T15:21:36.222+10:002013-08-27T15:21:36.222+10:00Well, I was doing this for Chet, so I decided to d...Well, I was doing this for Chet, so I decided to do some math:<br /><br />The average game takes you 8.5 hours to finish. The median however is 9, so you've got a few really short games dragging the average down, but not by a crazy amount. The length of a 1989 average game is 11.7 hours, median 11 hours. <br /><br />Now the really fun part: Right now, before adding this game, a linear fit of the average time vs year, NOT counting 1984, gets a linear fit of y = 1.87x - 3708.1 if you use the year as the X axis, with a fit of R^2 = 0.9873. Now, I'm rigging it by droping 1984, but hey, if this is true, and damn, that is a good R^2, we can predict the length of adventure games: It says 1990 will have an average length of 13 hours, 1991: 15, and by 2000 Trickster will have to play each game for 32 hours! That will be a treat compared to modern games, which will be 56 hours each! :DCanageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.com